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U.S. Democratic Canidate?

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joshualoftus
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U.S. Democratic Canidate?

#1 Post by joshualoftus »

Just wanted to ask some of the lads in the States (and others if they have an opinion) who they think should get the Democratic nomination to run against Bush?
Dean, Clark, Lieberman, Kelly?
From my point of view so far I like Clark, but I only have a very superficial view from where I sit in Australia. What do you guys think so far?
Cheers guys,
Josh.

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Chris
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well

#2 Post by Chris »

I would of said Dean but there is something not right about him and i think if he is the canidate some dirt will come out and insted of being like a normal polition and watching what you say the says it and then says he did not mean it happens all the time

so i think Clark will be the better Canidate
Dis i spell that right?

Frank S.

#3 Post by Frank S. »

It's a good question... A bit difficult to answer in a 'considered' manner, though. It was somewhat touched upon some months ago in the misc. forum.
Well my view is this: for the democratic camp, it comes down to either Dean or Clark. Neither is a particularly savory choice, and they are coming to be evenly matched, despite some fluctuations in polls.

I've made it abundantly clear what I think of the current administration in terms of international and domestic policies, but maybe this is an occasion to qualify it.
I don't believe that our economic woes, which in turn have affected other world economies, can all be blamed squarely on the Bush administration. You could find a good many Americans who believe that Bush's tax cuts for instance, are the right thing to do. I don't.
My take is that the bursting of the tech bubble which started 3-4 years ago was an opportunity to address flawed economic policies. Policies which were appropriate at one time, but could no longer be sustained. This was not done.
I could give corporate welfare (top to bottom) as a specific issue, but I don't want to get mired into details.
A new book, potantially interesting, is coming out, written by a former Wall Street Journal reporter with Paul O'Neill, the secretary of the treasury for the first year of Bush's administration. O'Neill was fired for not being a 'team player' and some of his comments point at how 'disconnected' the president is from economic issues.

In the second part of his term in particular, Bush has brought in people based on their political affiliations, a bad idea, especially in ecomic matters.

In effect, who these people vote for trumps their academic/real world achievements. They are, however, team players.

Dean, I see as almost as 'revolutionary' as some in the administration, such as Cheney, Rumsfeld et al.
Clark 'appears' closer to center.
The argument against both tends to point to their lack of consistency. It is a matter of great debate on which I have no opinion due to lack of data.
Basically, the choice is this:
Stay on our current course with Bush, or find our way back to the way things used to be done with either Dean or Clark.
My view is that even if a democrat were elected, we cannot go back.
Consider that even the Iran-Contra affair was not enough to permanently shove Wolfowitz, Feith and other such ideologues off the corridors of power.
It would take something much 'worse', which would affect Americans directly, deeply and adversely.
This election year, one hot issue will be jobs. Finally, after years of this, talk shows are addressing the issue of jobs going offshore and various web sites/forums are showing posts about it.
But there is another factor which is just over the horizon, tied to productivity, which is very likely to adversely affect America's technological superiority (probably for a later topic).
So the question remains to me how will any candidate tackle the problems of globalization. Like it or not, it's as real and unavoidable as life and death.
The surge in nationalistic (protectionist/isolationist) movements and parties around the world is such a problem.
A democratic president, either Dean or Clark, would not be 'progress', I think. If there is to be progress, it would be something major, something almost cataclysmic and certainly revolutionary. The event-horizon beyond which you may not turn back.

All hands vote Bush and brace for impact. :wink:

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#4 Post by Whitey »

I agree with Frank, and will brace for impact with George. Dean is emotional rather than logical, and Clark with his connection to the Clintons isn't an option for me either.

Cataclysmic in the form of the economy is what I see happening. Bush has expanded budgets like Lincoln and Grant after the Civil War, it became a dark period for many Americans. This time I think people would demand radical change if they found the doors to wal-mart closed.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

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#5 Post by Marina »

To those members across the pond

I heard that that Dean has won the democratic nomination.

So how do you think he will fare against Bush ?


P.S
Please do keep us informed (from your perspective) on the election race.
Also, what is Jeb Bush like, is he more astute in politics than George W ?

Thanks

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#6 Post by Whitey »

First of all Democrat/Republican, it is the same coin, different sides. It doesn't matter who wins the agenda in place still goes through, one make give a token homosexual endorsement and the other may not ban more guns, the parties are a trap, both just want to usurp the constitution.
But who knows who will get it, Bush I'd think would beat Dean, but the nation is polarized, not to these candidates but on issues. I wouldn't be suprised if a war broke out.
Clark might have been a better choice for the Dems, but really it is beyond these candidates at this point, this is a nation divided almost 50/50 on ideas. I predict a fight within the next 20 years.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

Frank S.

#7 Post by Frank S. »

At the 1988 Republican Convention, Hartford Courant associate editor David Fink struck up a conversation with George W. "When you're not talking politics," Fink asked the vice president's son, "what do you and [your father] talk about?"
"Pussy," George W. replied.
Bush cannot lose.
Since 2000, Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Making of an American President has been the most talked-about Bush biography, weathering a fierce storm of controversy and suppression. After original publisher St. Martin’s Press received threats from Bush campaign lawyers, and saw their author destroyed in public, they withdrew their edition of 70,000 from stores with promises to burn them. Soft Skull republished the book, but ran into corporate media (like 60 Minutes, and media "watchdog" Brill’s Content) intent on attacking the author. A Texas lawsuit shut down distribution of this critical, fair, revealing biography. Hatfield’s life became the bigger story, and the message he was trying to send seemed destined to remain unheard.

Soft Skull nevertheless released an updated second edition of Fortunate Son in June 2001, adding analyses of our "selected president" by noted historians, attorneys, and professors and a new introduction by NYU Media Professor Mark Crispin Miller, author of The Bush Dyslexicon. Shortly thereafter, on July 17, 2001, Jim Hatfield checked himself into a motel in Arkansas and took an overdose of pills, ending his own life after experiencing what Mark Crispin Miller describes as "ruination" at the hands of "the Bush machine and a compliant corporate press."
Two of the corporations that provide nearly all of the voting machines in the United States—ES&S and Diebold—are controlled by Republicans with strong ties to the Bush administration. One company is also linked to a far-right fundamentalist Christian movement.
In a recent mailing to Republican donors, Walden O’Dell, CEO of Diebold Inc., one of three companies certified to sell electronic voting equipment to the state of Ohio, stated his commitment “to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.”
Diebold: 12/16/2003

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — At least five convicted felons secured management positions at a manufacturer of electronic voting machines, according to critics demanding more stringent background checks for people responsible for voting machine software.
Voter advocate Bev Harris alleged Tuesday that managers of a subsidiary of Diebold Inc., one of the country's largest voting equipment vendors, included a cocaine trafficker, a man who conducted fraudulent stock transactions and a programmer jailed for falsifying computer records.


Diebold’s political contributions: http://mcwahtdesign.com/election2dContr.htm

Diebold also manufactures ATM machines which provide paper verification (ATM receipt). They refuse, however, to incorporate the paper verification feature into their voting machines.
in Florida, Jeb Bush's first choice as running mate in 1998 was Sandra Mortham. According to the Tallahasee Democrat (10/6/2002) Mortham, was a paid lobbyist for ES&S and received a commission for every county that bought its touch-screen machines. Mortham says there was nothing improper about the deals, but Broward County Commissioner Ben Graber disagreed, alleging conflict of interest.

(to be continued...)

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Whitey
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#8 Post by Whitey »

Yeah Bush is getting re-elected. I'm refusing to vote this election and urge others to do the same, by voting you give your consent for the bull crap.
Jeb can talk better than his brother, but he is the same. A scallywag yankee moved south to be the provisional overseer of the occupied territory.
God bless Jefferson Davis, rightful president of the South.
56 or Fight!
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

Wholley

#9 Post by Wholley »

This Just In.
It's minus 5deg in New York.Their covered in snow.
Al Gore gives a speech on Global Warming.
Good timing or what?
And ya'll think Bush is stupid?
Wholley.
:o

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Whitey
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#10 Post by Whitey »

Wholley,
I don't trust or like either the Republicans or Democrats. Republicanism destroyed our south and our country once and seems to be at it again. Democrats have lost their way and have degenerated into Green Peace in suits.
I fail to see how some yankees in DC know what is good for us in the west and you in the south.
Niether party pledges to preserve the Constitution, therefore neither deserve continued support, or better said charity from us who they view as subjects.
Me and my boys are sitting this one out. I've sent the Rep. party fundraiser chairman a letter outlining my decision to break my support for them and my intentions on supporting a 3rd party.
Corruption, complacency and discrimination towards our people. This is very much realevent on this board because America and the UK's freedom is tied. English Rule of Law was our base of freedoms, theirs too, anglo-American values wtf are Judeo-Christian values? We should unite on election days outside our counties and refuse to support a system that treats us as second class citizens on our own land.
I got love for you Wholley and Frank, but I just can't play the game in order to "Buy Stuff" any longer. I value my constitutional rights more than my interest rates and credit limits.
The recent string of treasonable acts over the last 20 years I can recall and the blatent usurping today has led me to this path.
Deo Vindice
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

Wholley

#11 Post by Wholley »

Call me bud.
You know the secret code.
I'm gettin'sick of some of the stupidity on this site.
Wholley.
:o

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Whitey
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#12 Post by Whitey »

Wholley,
I'll call you soon, I would now but wouldn't want to wake you up.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

exvmremf

#13 Post by exvmremf »

Is it right that Hilary Clinton isn't running this time because it is more common for Presidents to run the full 8 years. I reckon she will run next time, and will probably walk it!!

Frank S.

#14 Post by Frank S. »

Hillary Clinton will have her hands full campaigning to be re-elected to the US senate in 2006. With her poll numbers (which is different from what people think of her) being poor currently, her run for the presidency in 2008 is far from certain.
The results of Iowa show the Democrats as being in disarray more than anything else. Bush could well win by a landslide or something close to it in '04. Besides, expect something major to take place in the closing months of this year, maybe the capture of Bin Laden or another terrorist attack on US soil...
After that, Republicans will not only control Congress, but the Senate, actually not so unvulnerable position.

exvmremf

#15 Post by exvmremf »

Can't say I understand US politics.
It seems to me the gadgy with the biggest wad usually gets to be 'it'.

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