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muslims in the military

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dwarfy
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#46 Post by dwarfy »

There is fairly large point being missed here. You cannot forget that their are a large number of Muslims who have joined in the 'wars' in many countries, for British muslims particulary in Bosnia, due to the belief that they beloing to the 'Ummah' first and foremost, their race, ethnicity and nationality coming second.

Essentially the 'Ummah', according to Islam, is the primary community to which any muslim belongs, and this concept has largely influenced British Muslim responces to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, as it had done with the conflicts in Bosnia and Chechenia. You cannot make the assumption that all 'foreign fighters', British included, in these warzones are 'crazed fundamentalists who like to cut peoples heads off infront of the camera's'. There can be a distict difference between those who massively deviate from the religion and twist it and those who are drawn to 'fight' due to their percieved roots and 'calling'.

For example there is gulf of difference between the 'foreign fighter' who travels to Chechenia believing he is protecting and fighting for his own people and the 'extremist' who blows himself up in a Bazzar killing innocent women and children.

As for a ban on Muslims joining the military, it cannot and quite rightly wont happen. There is a very narrow media interpretation of Muslims in this country that, in my opinion, is very counter productive to a peacefull and tolerent society. It breeds unwarrented mistrust and resentment amonsgt non-muslims and only acts to encourage Muslims themselves to become more secular because of this. I also believe there is very little understanding, on the whole, of genuine Muslim concerns and a feeling that any Muslim who does speak out must be a terrorist.
Last edited by dwarfy on Sat 23 May, 2009 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#47 Post by Airborne Legend »

Seconded Dwarfy.
There is no fear, there is only the force.

Do or do not, there is no try.

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#48 Post by jabcrosshook »

I concur. :)

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#49 Post by pankaye »

ramboto wrote:We cannot always generalize....having an ethnocentric mindset will just fuel more bigotry and conflict....
spot on
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Wholley

#50 Post by Wholley »

No argument from this call sign dwarfy.
Concise and eloquent post.

Aye,

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Tab
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#51 Post by Tab »

When Britain had large number of Muslim Troops they were mainly from the Commonwealth and they were large groups there fore it was easy to look after their needs. Now when you have the odd Muslim amongst mainly non Muslim troops there is a problem in getting the right food to them espeaily if it has to dropped in by parachute. Still there is no bar on them joining the forces.

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#52 Post by dwarfy »

Wholley,

How are relations (on the whole) between the Muslim communities and the average Americans over where you are? I read recently that America was beggining to see for the first time some problems arrising with 'home grown' terrorists, whom of course may not be muslim, however it was clear that on this occasion they were or were at least converts. But what is the general perception by the public/presentation by the media like for Muslims in the US?

Is there the fear, mistrust, ignorance and so forth (from both communities) that we see here?

Dwarfy,

Wholley

#53 Post by Wholley »

Dwarfster,
you really are trying to put me between a rock and a hard place on this issue.I live in a small Southern town(what would be called a village in the UK)The majority of Moslem's tend to the large cities in the north where they largely keep to themselves much like the Chinese(China Town)And the Italians(Little Italy)In New York City and Chicago.
As to"Home grown terrorism"It's been around for a while in different shades.The Klan comes to mind as do the Black Panthers.
We as a race are tribal by nature and the biggest tribe wins sometimes to the detriment of everyone else.
The United States could have turned Afganistan into a pile of dust after 9/11 but the president chose not too.
Churchill ordered the carpet bombing of Dresden in 1945 when the war was lost for the Germans.
Who was the terrorist?
Do you see my point?

dwarfy
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#54 Post by dwarfy »

Well thanfully the President made the right the choice in this instance, quite what destroying Afghanistan would have achieved I dont know. Apart from appeasing the overtly aggressive 'revengers', bombing the place beyond relevant need to take out Al-Queda camps would have been a disaster for many reasons, none least than increasing the 'evidence' that terrorist recruiters use to invoke hatred of the West and the USA.

I just wondered, in general, how the Muslim community was viewed by the average American(if such a thing exists).

Dwarfy,

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#55 Post by sterion66 »

I would recommend watching religulous some very interesting subjects brought up. It has a part of it that is serious bringing up things from holy books and questioning people who believe in them, the other side of it is there's a comedy or mocking humour part.

Islam is brought up and i believe it's mentioned that non islams would be referred to as infidels.

"Soon shall we cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"
Qur'an, Surah 3:151

"All that is on earth will perish"

And Osama Bin Laden quoted

"Acquiring nuclear weapons for the defense of Muslims is a religious duty"

I have had muslim friends and they are nice people. They aren't massively religious but lets face it anything written can be interpreted in a million and one ways to suit what you want to believe. If enough people read into them as negative destructive comments then religion will end the world.

Mike

Wholley

#56 Post by Wholley »

dwarfy wrote: the average American(if such a thing exists).
Average Americans exist,same as average English,Irish,Welsh,Hindu, Punjabi,Australian,Polish,Italian,Kiwi et al.

Mind you,then there's Goddamn Yankee's :D

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#57 Post by Obi Wan Kenobi »

There is no legislation against muslims in the military where I am. In fact there are thousands of them.

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#58 Post by MSI64 »

To be honest I have never seen a single Muslim soldier kick up a fuss about food or prayers or My religion.
Have just been on a course with two Muslim soldiers in my group and didnt even notice untill halfway through the course.
Soldiers are soldiers regardless of race colour of creed, I have heard the term "there is no colour in the army everyone is green" and find this applies at very unit I have ever been too.
Its only the idiots from both sides that make an issue of it.
To bar Muslim soldiers from the Army would be a travesty, we have some excellent soldiers from some far flung ethnic regions.

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