End of Local Education Authorities

[Iftikhar]

End of Local Education Authorities

Parents’ groups, charities, faith bodies, and mutual organizations will have greater role in delivering educational services under plans being drawn up by both Labour and Tory parties. Swedish system of independent state schools, financed by vouchers, is now inspiring the Tory Party to set British schools free from LEAs. The proposal will end 60 years of local government control of education,

Since 1944, all schools have been under a statutory obligation to provide for the spiritual, moral, social and cultural development of pupils at the schools. All state schools have failed to help children to achieve such goals. This is the main reason why silent majority of Muslim parents would prefer to send their children to Muslim schools. Even OFSTED is unable to assess the spiritual and moral development of the children. There is ample evidence that state schools foster intolerance, hate and bullying. There is no evidence that Muslim schools indoctrinate children with values and endanger shared society. Primary Review reports on diversity presents a powerful attack on current educational discourse in relation to diversity and to bilingual pupils in particular. The schools and teachers see children’s use of languages other than English as a ‘barrier to learning’ instead of recognizing and respecting them.

It is crucial that Muslim children should be surrounded with the languages, culture and faith. Faith is powerful element of both personal and community identity. They need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim pupils are in majority, in my opinion and in the opinion of the silent majority of Muslim parents, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools. Muslim schools are not only faith schools, they are more or less bilingual schools. Bilingual Muslim children need to learn and well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They need to learn and well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the Holy Quran. They need to learn and well versed in Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. Bilingualism is brilliant for the development of intellectual ability and cultural understanding. The great diversity of cultures and languages should be the key to the development of Britain as a world leader in multilingual, multi-cultural integration and partnership, an example to every other nation of how people of all faiths and cultures can live, learn and work together in harmony for a more just and fair world for everybody.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

[Illustrious]

Ok, I may just be tired but how it comes across to me is that you are in favour for segregated schools?

[Wholley]

Mr.Ahmad,
My first reaction to your post was one of anger and despondency.
Initially my thoughts were"Why should Islam be taught in state schools in a traditionally Christian society where the study of the Holy Bible is banned"Having re-read your post I think I understand your point.
Learning and multi-culturism is the way forward for Great Britain.
I thank my God that I live in the United States.
No disrespect intended but if you choose to live in Rome,you do as the Romans,assimilation not dissimulation and isolation is the way forward.

[_chris]

It is crucial that Muslim children should be surrounded with the languages, culture and faith. ... They need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models.

...an example to every other nation of how people of all faiths and cultures can live, learn and work together ...

[London Boy]

See my response on this issue on your "introduction" thread. I disagree with every point you make.

Also a correction, state schools in Sweden are NOT independent and they are not funded by vouchers.

I live in Sweden, I work for the Ministry of Defence here. Sweden is legally a secular state.

And my children go to Swedish schools. And I'm glad to say that Swedish schools are 100% secular, religious activites of all kinds are illegal i.e. praying, church visits, etc.

Religious manifestations are also illegal in the workplace in Sweden, thankfully!

Religious education is taught as an academic subject not from the perspective of a state religion. Because there is no state religion in Sweden.

The church and state finally, thankfully, officially separated in Sweden in 2000.

Religion solves nothing. It only creatre problems, segregation and separatism. And is the root of most of the problems in the world today. And has been for over 2000 years!

All religions should be banned (The Soviets had the right idea).
All schools should be state financed secular schools.
Believing in a religion should be viewed as no different to any other interest or hobby.

And in the 21st century should have no influence at all on the lives of
people who do not believe in ancient superstitious cults from the Middle East, Asia and the Orient.

[Sully]

I'm basically from immigrant (Irish) stock and I know that various branches of my family, being free thinking and free spirited types couldn't wait to get away from the fundamentalism of the catholic church in Ireland. They meddled (maybe still do) in all kinds of things (such as schooling and health policy) where they had no business in a modern state.

The original post reminds me of the joke where the motorist asks the Metropolitan policeman "do you know a good place to park"...."Yep, Sweden" was the reply. Iftikhar, there seems to be stacks of what you crave in places such as Pakistan...so....erm.....you know.... and have a safe trip.

That said I bear you no ill will. Welcome to the site but a military discussion forum seems a strange place to take your crusade.

[London Boy]

The original post reminds me of the joke where the motorist asks the Metropolitan policeman "do you know a good place to park"...."Yep, Sweden" was the reply.

Not an urban myth. That Met policeman was me. That exchange is true. I regularly used to answer that question like that.

[Iftikhar]

Salaam

Muslim schools are not only faith schools but they are more or less
bilingual schools.

Bilingual Muslim children need to learn standard English to follow the
National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve
humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the
Holy Quran. They need to be well versed in Urdu and other community
languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of
their literature and poetry.

Bilingualism is an asset but the British schooling regards it as a problem.
A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to
become notoriously monolingual Brit. Pakistan is only seven hours from
London and majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan.

More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications. British school
system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60
years. Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the
Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning. 33% of British
Muslims of working age have no qualifications and Muslims are also the least
likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications. Most of estimated
500,000 Muslim school-aged pupils in England and Wales are educated in the
state system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Majority of them are
underachievers because they are at a wrong place at a wrong time.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers during their developmental periods. There is no place for a
non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. As far as higher education
is concerned, Muslim students can be educated with others.

You better concentrate on native children for their proper education. Let
Muslim community educate its own children so that they can develop their own
Islamic, cultural and linguistic identities.

We are living in an English speaking country and English is an international
language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well versed in
standard English and at the same time well versed in Arabic, Urdu and Arabic
languages. Is there anything wrong with this approach?

[London Boy]

They meddled (maybe still do) in all kinds of things (such as schooling and health policy) where they had no business in a modern state.

Very true. And unfortunately they still meddle. I'm Irish myself. My father never went into any details, but I know from the way he said the little he did say and the way he kept shtum about the rest that he'd been given a hell of a hard time at the Christian Brothers school in Waterford in the 1940s. My mother went to a country village school in Wesport in co. Mayo in the 30s and 40s and has mostly fond memories, apart from the beatings she used to get for trying to write left handed. Her natural hand. she was forced to tie her left hand behind her back when in class. Talk about torture. To this day she does everything else left-handed but still writes right-handed. Irish schools were barbaric up to as late as the 80s. It was only entry into the EU in 73 that forced the intiial changes. And the revelations in the 80s and 90s of dozens of scandals of brother's as teachers sexually assaulting children.
Scum! The lot of them

Luckily the Catholic schools I went to in London had lay teachers. they were still awful schools though.

[London Boy]

Salaam

Muslim schools are not only faith schools but they are more or less
bilingual schools.

Religious seperatist teaching isn't needed in schools. And your children would be better off learning English. Integration not separation. I also disagreed in the 70s with the Spanish schools that exist in London, whereby my Spanish schoolmates were forced to go to a Spanish school at the end of the normal schoolday. Poor kids.

Bilingual Muslim children need to learn standard English to follow the
National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve
humanity.

Granted, that's exactly the same for all children.

They need to be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the
Holy Quran. They need to be well versed in Urdu and other community
languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

Why? Who says so? Generations of indoctrinated parents, that's who!
All schools should be secular.

Bilingualism is an asset but the British schooling regards it as a problem.

Yes, it's an asset, but only if the learning of the second language is done freely and willingly, not if it is forced upon the children, like the Spanish and Arabs do in their schools. I've seen the videos of the barbaric teachers in Arabic schools in England, hitting small children when they give the wrong answer. That is illegal and WILL NOT be tolerated in the UK.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village.

WRONG! A Muslim is a follower of a religion. He or she is not a citizen of anywhere, not of any country or any state.

He/she does not want to
become notoriously monolingual Brit.

No one is saying he/she should. And no one is suggesting that either.

More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications.

Perhaps if they felt they were supported by their communities to spend
more time on academic schoolwork and academic homework rather than several hours a day praying and studying the Koran, they might have
more chance of gaining academic qualifications. Koran study won't get you into university and won't get you a job.

British school system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60 years.

Get over yourself will you! The world doesn't revolve around Muslims you know. The British school system has been failing large numbers of all creeds of British children for the last 60 years!!!

Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the
Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning.

DO NOT confuse knowledge with the study of ancient superstitious texts, be it the Torah, Koran, Bible or the Vedas.

33% of British Muslims of working age have no qualifications and Muslims are also the least likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications. Most of estimated 500,000 Muslim school-aged pupils in England and Wales are educated in the state system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Majority of them are underachievers because they are at a wrong place at a wrong time.

You're shooting yourself in the foot here. Statistics are a great thing because they both lie and reveal hidden truths at the same time. The other part of the truth is that 66% of Muslims of working age i.e. two thirds DO HAVE academic qualifications.

As for underachievers I am sure that the figures are probably roughly the same for the children of all other ethnic and religious groups.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. As far as higher education is concerned, Muslim students can be educated with others.

This is just pure segregationism and bordering on racism in fact. I find the whole concept of identifying a group of school children by religion rather off-putting and counter-productive. Rather than by the nationality of their parents, if such divisions and identifications need to be done at all, which I highly suspect they don't. And reading between the lines one detects a hint of arrogance in your writing that leads the reader to think that you believe Muslim children to be better than other British school children and to be more deserving of better education.

MIGHT THE UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH be that the pressure from parents and their respective Islamic communtiies is too great for the children and thus hampers their academic learning. Might the truth be that religion is in fact that which is holding back Muslim school children, presenting a hindrance rather than a support. And continues as such becasue of the indoctrinated views of generaitons of parents and religious leaders.

You better concentrate on native children for their proper education. Let
Muslim community educate its own children so that they can develop their own Islamic, cultural and linguistic identities.

NO, never in a million years. You are welcome in the UK, your children are welcome in the school system. But YOU, parent and religious leader
must integrate and must cease this ridiculous cultural, religious, seperatist, segregationist approach to schooling and in fact to many aspects of yuor life in the UK.

We are living in an English speaking country and English is an international language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well versed in
standard English and at the same time well versed in Arabic, Urdu and Arabic
languages. Is there anything wrong with this approach?

If you want that then teach them Arabic, Urdu, Pashtu and Farsi at home. And if that was all you wanted I'd have no objection, but you want a complete Muslim school system, you want sharia law, you want seperate courts, the Muslim council of GB even wants to set up its own Parliament NEVER!

By the way, I don't see or hear any Bosnians and other European Muslims calling for Muslim schools. They as European Muslims seem quite content to send their children to the state schools.

[Sully]

We are living in an English speaking country and English is an international language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well versed in standard English

Do you not consider yourself English now? You want your children to speak "an international language"? Don't you want your children to speak the language because it is the natural tongue of the people amongst whom you have chosen to live?

[London Boy]

We are living in an English speaking country and English is an international language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well versed in standard English

Do you not consider yourself English now? You want your children to speak "an international language"? Don't you want your children to speak the language because it is the natural tongue of the people amongst whom you have chosen to live?

In fairness Sully, he can never be English. British yes, if he wants, but never English. Just as I as an Irish citizen also hold British citizenship but I'm not English. Anyway, let's not open that can of worms again

That said, I fully agree with the point you're making. Which is similar to what I said above about the parents of Muslim children being more of a hindrance than a help on the language issue.

[harry hackedoff]

Great post Elbee, most salient point being “get over yerself"

I`m on a crusade to teach Scouse down here btw.
I want separate Scouse skools and all state skools must include Scouse on the lunchtime menu.
Except Friday when we`d all eat cod, obviously Dessert everyday would be rice pudden.
Religious studies would centre on LFC and Bill Shankley. Wearing red and white would be compulsory.
Subjects taught would centre on the early rise of Liverpool pop culture from mid fifties onwards with particular focus on the minor hits of Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas, Gerry and the Pacemakers and the Swinging Blue Jeans. The influence of Pete Burns, OMD and Echo and the Bunneymen on the greater yoof culture would be balanced by assessments of Stevie Highway’s top fifty goals compared to Stevie Gerard’s
Basic twoccing and running a "cut and shut operation" are essential life skills as is R To I from the Busies and "what not to wear in Court" and would form the basis of Tertiary education
Legal aid would be free, as would lessons in suing the Corpy and manipulation of the social security system.

Anyone not agreeing would be labelled a "Fugging Evertonian" and castigated.

Mind you, some may say "If you miss your homeland so much, if you want to change your country of residence into the country you left to have a better life, then why not simply fark off back there and save us all the trouble you cnut"

Not all Muslims are like me though. There are a few with a greater understanding and a secular outlook. They are the hope of better understanding between immigrants and the host population.
Not fascists like you though, Ifty
No offence, obviously

[jabcrosshook]

Great post Elbee, most salient point being “get over yerself"

I`m on a crusade to teach Scouse down here btw.
I want separate Scouse skools and all state skools must include Scouse on the lunchtime menu.
Except Friday when we`d all eat cod, obviously Dessert everyday would be rice pudden.
Religious studies would centre on LFC and Bill Shankley. Wearing red and white would be compulsory.
Subjects taught would centre on the early rise of Liverpool pop culture from mid fifties onwards with particular focus on the minor hits of Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas, Gerry and the Pacemakers and the Swinging Blue Jeans. The influence of Pete Burns, OMD and Echo and the Bunneymen on the greater yoof culture would be balanced by assessments of Stevie Highway’s top fifty goals compared to Stevie Gerard’s
Basic twoccing and running a "cut and shut operation" are essential life skills as is R To I from the Busies and "what not to wear in Court" and would form the basis of Tertiary education
Legal aid would be free, as would lessons in suing the Corpy and manipulation of the social security system.

Anyone not agreeing would be labelled a "Fugging Evertonian" and castigated.

Mind you, some may say "If you miss your homeland so much, if you want to change your country of residence into the country you left to have a better life, then why not simply fark off back there and save us all the trouble you cnut"

Not all Muslims are like me though. There are a few with a greater understanding and a secular outlook. They are the hope of better understanding between immigrants and the host population.
Not fascists like you though, Ifty
No offence, obviously

Now I like that.(Bold bit) It's full of common sense and minimal political correctness.

[Wholley]

Thats the end of that debate then.