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post traumatic stress disorder

Discussions and general chat about PTSD. Feel free to introduce yourself or if you need help, please reach out and ask.
Yorkie Malone
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Post by Yorkie Malone »

It's not often people want to remember me!!!

But as the PW said He thought he was alone. When really we are all suffering in our little rooms.

Glad it was worthwhile.

It was where I was first introduced to woodturning, they let me loose with big sharp chisels... well it seemed one up from basket weaving, but I did my bit and allso made a load of poppys, although I did put in a few with the leaf on top of the flower.

SyY
Yorkie Malone
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Post by Yorkie Malone »

Harry, Just had another look at what you had written.

At the end you have

TREATMENT WORKS

Are you saying, cos my name is mentioned, that I'm a load of SHoneT????!!!

You might not get that pint on the 28th ?????

SyY
colours
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Post by colours »

Hi All,

I'm reposting my last message here as I realised that this is where the main thread needs to be kept going.

Isn't it a damning indictment on our beloved Corps that we as ex-Royal Marines having to set up a support group in order to help our brothers-in-arms.

I spoke about it to my physiologist about it yesterday (he’s an ex-pongo) and thinks it’s a great idea. However, having dealt with many ex-servicemen with PTST and related illness during his 40 yrs as a professional, he is not in the slightest impressed with the attitude and treatment of suffers. He is of the opinion that the services have, and are continuing to brush the whole issue under the rug rather than admit that it is, an occupational hazard!

If there is anyone out there who wishes to speak to me as someone who has recently been right down there in the blackness, firmly in the grip of PTSD and going over the edge please get in touch. I’m finding my way back but only by knowing that out there are individuals who do give a damn!

As reciently served at CTCRM and at first hand witnessed their enlightened attitude toward the problem of PTSD, I believe that it is MOD policy to simply ignore it on two counts:

Firstly, is MOD acknowledged that there was a significant risk of exposure to combat situations could result in unforeseen mental problems in individuals this would result in a dramatic reduction in recruiting.

Secondly, the MOD has a duty of care during the soldier's career. However, because such a duty of care does not extend beyond a soldier's career, they have immorally closed their eyes to any evidence of PTSD, which may entail any resulting drain on the Defence Vote

I look forward to your comments!


Regards

Colours
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El Prez
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Post by El Prez »

Everybody involved or even remotely linked by association with the recent double murder in Soham was immediately offered counselling and help. This forum has obviously been of greater benefit to the limited few that contact us than the in-place medical facilities offered by the state. the report from HH is really encouraging, but I can't help feeling hugely saddened that so many good men should suffer unduly because of a lack of care/responsibility by their former employer.
My wife has just asked if the listeners forum will be extended to the Army web-sites etc, I know the system of listeners is in it's infancy but from little acorns etc.
Keep up the good work lads, it's even helping those of us who only read the forum.
You should talk to somebody who gives a f**k.
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Post by colours »

The greyman update.

Harry, I personally think that the idea of a listeners/support group is excellent, and I for one realise how you must have agonised with the concepts of interfering and thus irretrievably damaging a precarious situation when so much is at stake. As you know, was had been to the edge of the void and almost went over. In my despair, I sought guidance from individuals outside my immediate family whom I thought loved me. Their advice simply confirmed my paranoia. Being a virtual recluse and with no one to listen to me, my I opted to an option which at the time seemed so simple.

It’s touching to see that there are people who really care about their fellow Marines enough to try to ensure that no other brother-in-arms gets to the edge of the pit where I stood just a few months ago. I see now that I was mentally unwell when I tried to OD myself and not talking to anyone about the attempt, (especially my wife), was simply making my mental state worse.

Thank God that I did let out my feelings in this forum and letting me know that there were people who cared out there. Once I knew your concern was genuine I felt I could begin to trust you and follow your advice i.e. telling my spouse and talking to my GP.

Fortunately my GP had dealt with an ex-service man previously and knew all about Combat Stress. In fact it was he who printed off their web page from the NHS intranet and advised me to contact them ASAP. I, of cause, followed his recommendation and in due cause saw a Regional Welfare Officer – Peter Poole who did a preliminary report on me and sorted out the initial funding for my bed at Audley Court. Unfortunately, the beds are in great demand and the waiting period is about 3 months! That is when I think listeners will come into their own, i.e. when someone finally realise that they have a problem, you are determined to get better, and they have the support from your GP and family but are waiting, for what seems forever to be assessed and treated.

I have been through many deep troughs mentally, especially during the ‘coming to terms with the fact that I was ill. (Please bear in mind that my wife had contacted my RSM asking for his help, explaining that her husband was coming home at weekends (Falklands anniversary time) and breaking down for no reason, just crying and emotionally in tatters. The result of that was I was removed to a “less stressful job.” ‘Paranoia ruled my reason’, and within months I visited the MO, the padre and welfare officer who referred me from to the other. The latter’s final comment being “I can read your body language; there is no one talking about you, it’s all in your head”)! I believe that compounded my problems. If you ask professionals for help and you are spurned because they cannot provide the answers then surly this exposes how inadequately prepared the Royal Marines are in their duty of care towards their men.

If I may make an allergy. If I worked down a mine for 22 yrs working in a dust filled environment, and then went to my employees saying I had the symptoms of lung cancer, and their reaction was to say “you are imagining it go away” would that be acceptable? I don’t think so!!!!!!

PTSD is a result of the body’s reaction normal reaction to an abnormal situation. What can be more abnormal than being in combat, be it killing an individual, the belief that your life is about to end, or seeing a comrade die while you are unable to intervene? “What is learned in combat is never, ever, ever forgotten”. You are in a life changing situation. It’s about time the Services woke up to the fact that PTSD is an occupational hazard and dealt with it accordingly.

Let me know what your views are on this subject.


Regards to you all


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Mutley
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Post by Mutley »

The Listeners are there for anyone. PTSD can affect anyone, just some are more exposed to traumatic events than others. Its a bit like breaking a leg -

The risk assessment for an active sporty adventurer type is much higher than for a little old lady who sits at home all day, nevertheless they could both break their leg, just as easily.

As has been said before, a broken leg needs fixing ....................

A while back a guy logged on as Guest, I replied as did the rest of the listeners, and I sent a PM. I wasnt really paying attention to the surrounding info, but he must have been logged on as I sent my message, almost immediately he replied.

He rarely had access to a PC let alone the net, but we spoke a couple of times on the phone. Clearly depressed, he had a shed load of personal probs...the old spiral again. Through talking he has now sought help from the relevant people. I do not know if I will hear from him again.

But there are several points.
1. He had been crashing around in the dark and nobody had seemed to notice, except that he was one step away from becoming divorced, bankrupt and likely homeless.
2. He was surprised and grateful at the responses and offers of support and encouragement.
2. He was surprised there was someone to listen to him.
3. He has since talked to his partner, his kids, his doc, the AA, and a debt counsellor. He 'didnt realise' there was so much help out there.

Oh yes, the guy had no experience of the Corps, he was an ex-gunner who had served exclusively in BAOR.

The whole point is to care and share not as experts, but as someone who has something in common - a uniform.

In hoc vinces
Last edited by Mutley on Thu 19 Sep, 2002 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
colours
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post traumatic stress disorder

Post by colours »

Greetings,

I cannot fault you, we all have a responsibility to all those we come in contact with. However, there should be a minimum requirement for such a group if the whole aspect was taken seriously in all three services.

I turned my back on the corps after 22 yrs service and refused a top table and built my impregnable 'ops room' ever deeper, because I was so disillusioned the Corps understanding. And this applies to all three services!.

If an individual has psychological problems, although he may have served in a conflict, it does not necessary mean that he is suffering from ‘combat induced PTSD’ he or she could display signs as a result of trauma such as childhood abuse, bullying, or through substance abuse, etc. It’s the job of the physiologists to sort that out, and is why there are experts at Combat Stress. The fact remains that stress kills.

My point has been that by serving our country we have voluntary placed ourselves in situations of high risk, it doesn’t matter if we be Cabbage Heads, Pongo’s, Crab Fats or Matlots. It is not the individual’s fault that a mental health problem manifests itself sooner or later as a result of one or multiple life changing situations.

The support, understanding, and first hand help is not in place in any of the services. So, as I have said, if anyone needs to talk - I have been through the mangle and know what it’s like – please, please, get in touch.

Regards


Colours
harry hackedoff
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Post by harry hackedoff »

at Combat stress they put it like this.
If someone breaks a leg, you say that they have a leg injury. You don`t say that they have a leg" illness"
When someone displays the symptoms , then they say that you have injured your mind. To me this makes more sense than to say you have a mental illness.
You don`t.
You have an injury, a damaged part.
It can be repaired.

Aye
Last edited by harry hackedoff on Sun 22 Sep, 2002 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mutley
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Post by Mutley »

Friends,

During our visit Tony at Combat Stress touched on a very, very succinct point. He said something like (forgive me if I misquote you, Tony).

Almost every guy that comes is angry at the MOD, angry at the Government, angry at the Services. Everyone is fiercely loyal to their country, their flag, their regiment or service. If asked everyone would take up arms and fight for their country again.

It is a sad fact that most of you following these threads understand that, but that there are many, many more with no experience of what Service means do not.

Good Luck to you all friends

In hoc vinces

PS I have been asked to translate -
in this we conquer
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Post by colours »

Greeting to you all,

I have two comments to make.

Firstly; Harry, at my stage of training I do not need a lecture on the political correct way of describing my feelings on somthing which I live with every day, so do not patronise me.

Secondly, there are agencies within the services whose role it is to ensure the well being of individuals with their area of responsibility. They are:
• Medical Services.
• Chaplains department.
• Welfare.
If all these three life lines shoot their door in your face, then what? Would you feel a little angry that they had failed to correctly diagnose obvious warning signs if you approached them for their help? Their inaction has caused incalculable changes my personality and the quality of life of my family and me and will dominate my actions and life for the unforeseeable future.

It is not only I who feel angry and let down by them, my G.P is appalled and my physiologist is of the opinion that (even in these enlightened days) the services do not know how to deal with PTSD!

Please re-read my previous posts for my view of why.

Having read and absorbed the above. Do I have a right to feel a little bitter towards the Royal Marines because of their treatment of me when I asked for their help?

I think that the answer is YES I have every right to this so.

Regards to you all
Mike Mortimore
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Post by Mike Mortimore »

Replying to the comment of the listening/support group. I have just started a listening course run through our church here in France, and what is involved for the listner is enlightning. Even the folk out here although retired still have problems and myself experiencing being the 'Talker' has given me the strength to be trained to help others, no matter the problem.
Having experienced the help from others has certainly been helpful in making the decision to help others. As we have all said in the past communication is the first step in healing. God Bless All Mike
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Post by Sticky Blue »

Guys, Outstanding thread. At first I didn't quite know where this thread was going to end up... I could see gloom and doom! but, to see a 'Greyman' become 'Coloured' really cheered me up.
Rob Parry suggested I read this thread as I have a friend, still serving, who is obviously a PTSD sufferer! He can't talk about the FI at all. He lost a wife, family and home because HE DIDN'T TALK! He never told any one how he was feeling. He cracked up in front of me recently... I didn't feel pity for him, I understood, and felt compassion for him. He still won't talk about it and has had problems in his relationship through it. I'll get him over and sit him down and make him read this thread... guys, there is hope and you are not alone! If any of you need to talk, PM me and I'll even phone you back if I'm at work!
My wife suffers from massive depression and somtimes I suppose I should talk to her about it... make her talk about it even. Talking worked for me... I was so low once. Close to the edge and then a tradgedy pulled me out of it, almost the reverse of PTSD I suppose. The incident kicked me in the balls and gave me more get up and go and forced me to look at reality. It showed me where the problem truly lay... and like most of you I found out the problem wasn't with me... it lay elsewhere. Once I had confronted the problem I found a ladder and began to climb out of the abbys that is deperession. I was in a dark hole without light; I couldn't find the ladder because it was dark. Once these events put the ladder in my hands I managed to climb out of the hole... what has this to do with this thread? Well putting it simply the mobs solution before this was to give me discharge SHORE! Like yourselves they were only too happy to remove the problem from their doorstep. Nobody figured out where the true problem lay. Friends had pointed the problem out to me, pinned me to the wall and shouted it at me but, when you are that low you can't see it. Smack in my face, and I couldn't see it!

Guys and gals, find your ladder and start climbing towards the light. The ladder is long and lonely at the start but as you climb out of your darkness you will find that people do care about you and that you are a good person. Onwards and upwards towards the light! Take that attitude that got you through the 30 miler and all of the events that made you low... be positive. Big boys don't cry! Yea? This big boy cried and it worked.
God bless you all
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Post by Tab »

Please don't think that I am having a go at any one or at what they have been through, but there is one thing that always jumps out and hit me.
I read about PTMS on troops from the Falklands, Bosania, and the Gulf,
this I can understand, but do you ever see some one from action before that having a go about it. What ever happened to the thousands of National Servicemen that went through the the Battlefields of Korea, or Malaya and dozens of other battles which were far worse than the Falklands or any other conflict since. How did they cope, eight weeks training then off to battle for the rest of there service, no home leave
or other comforts just twenty months of fighting for about ten bob a week.
Then a troopship home and demob straight back into civy street and back to work. No parades no thank you just get on with it and sort your self out
like all those that went before you. How was it they did it then ?????
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Post by bean »

When I start bleeding from my parts with PTMS I will give you the anwser to that question, In the mean time I shall go back to shouting and hitting my kids, making my wifes life a living hell and sitting for hours on end sharping a knife so I can end there suffering . I think I may be the wrong person to have replied to your post. but despite your first few lines of disclaimer , you clearly think I enjoy screaming into the face of and eight year old and not realising what I am was doing. I am glad I am not ill or anything god knows what I would be like.

Maybe I will feel diffent tommorow now that you have pointed out that I am making it all up because no one before 1980 suffered with it Or Maybe instead of looking just past the end of your noie, you could look at how may so called tramps used to live rough in those years or how many people took there own lives or beat the wives or spent there lives drunk

No offence honest , you just posted on the wrong day. but at least when I sit down with the shrink next week I can tell him it s ok, when he thought I was a danger to my self and others, I sort a second opion and apprently he was wrong and I am just in a bad mood.

best wishes

Lee Coleman , Redcar , Cleveland, UK ex marine, ex police firearms,

ps. Just as an after thought maybe,, you fancy Pm my wife and asking here what it was like to find her husband in the town centre today sat near the war memorial shaking crying and unable to move. or maybe not, as I don,t think she is quite as understand as me.
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising every time we fail. - Confucius
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Post by bean »

Sorry about the spelling ect, it was posted from the heart and not the mind. I will make sure I run through the spell checker next time.
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising every time we fail. - Confucius
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