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9 yrs = No Pension

General chat about Military Finance, Pensions, etc.
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Sisyphus
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9 yrs = No Pension

#1 Post by Sisyphus »

Anyone throw any light on the following? (following a tip-off from SH):

People who left the Corps before April '75 (I think) got no pension rights. Guys who left after that did. I've always felt peeved that 9yrs "effort" got no reward. Especially as guys who served pretty much during the same period did if they left after 4/75.

Or should I just get my dummy and comfort blanket, and go and sit in the corner?

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Mike
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#2 Post by Mike »

Sisyphus, I suggest that you follow the following link which will tell you more than I can.
I, too, am cought up in this governmental scam, I have had my MP see the then minister for pensions, Alistair Bloody Darling, (how I'd love to Darling him) who said in no uncertain terms TOUGH.
However there are a number of service personell who are caught, like us who have secured tha help of solicitors in Bristol, to fight their case and as far as I know it is in the high court as I write.
Their contact is :Richmonds Solicitors, 34A High St, Keynsham Nr.Bristol BS31 1DQ.
Their initial charge for membership to this merry band of men was £200,( I am not a member, I don't have a spare £200) however this fee is open ended on their behalf, a colleague of mine joine up at the start and paid his £200 and has since had further demands. People who are using Richmonds may be able to advise you more. I might add that Richmonds have said that should they win the day, only those fully paid up with them will benefit! I find this a wee bit anoying as surly, should it become law, all should benefit from the case regardless of whether they were paid up or not.
Any way that is about all I have on the subject, I would be intrested if there are others like us on this forum, and to know what they are doing about it,
Aye
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The Honourable Lord Mike of Loch Borralan
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Sisyphus
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#3 Post by Sisyphus »

Mike

Many thanks. I'll keep my eye on it. I'd be reluctant to give them £200, too (solicitors being 5th on my hate list) However, I wouldn't want to profit on the backs of the lads who have paid, so I'd donate £200 to the RMA if it ever comes off.

I can't believe that the govt could give money only to those people who submit the claim. It would have to be a general principle, surely? Anyway, if they did then I'm sure there are 000's of us out there who would club together and submit another claim. The precedent will have been set. Big thing in English Law, precedent!

Thanks again.

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#4 Post by El Prez »

I have been rereading my Certificate of Service, you know the R138, printed on linen. Get yours out and check page 2. Under the last line of your service/unit qualification etc. it should state whether you are entitled to a preserved pension. I am, it baldly states Preserved Pension Awarded, and joined Sept. '70. So if the rules were changed post me signing my contract surely this applies to your case as well.
If you are entitled to a War Pension and are disabled you can also bring your Marines Pension forward, lump sum and all. All you have to do is write to the Pay and Records office, they action it immediately.
You should talk to somebody who gives a f**k.
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#5 Post by Sisyphus »

Rob

Thanks. I'll dig it out and have a butchers. Mind you as we're just about to move house I may have to wait until we've unpacked to lay my mitts on it. But thanks again. And I'll be dropping my MP a line in the New Year, too. Not with any sense of optimism but... if ya don't ask ya don't get.

Thanks again.

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#6 Post by Mike »

Rob, Sisyphus, Just read your last, Rob, there is nothing a you discribe on mine, just an exemption waver to RMR as I joined the Civil Srevice.. I' be interested if Sisyphus ( I'm so tempted to cal you Sisy)! has the same. Mind you Mine is dated Jan 63.
I'm suprised no others have not picked up on this problem, there must be many out there
Happy nooo Yeah
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#7 Post by barryc »

Sorry fellas, I missed this thread when it started. I too share with Sisyphus the pension problem, anyone not doing the full 22 and not serving beyond 1975 doesn't get a pension or pension entitlement. I am now a (hush) civil servant and by virtue of serving almost 11 years in the Corps (girls time) I am disqualified from ever putting in the time needed for a full pension. The inequality came to light apparently through military people working alongside civil servants at GCHQ and then staying on there after leaving the forces, only to find that they had been working for no pension benefit whilst their civil service colleagues were adding up the years.

Richmond's fee is currently £300 ( the initial £200 plus a top-up) IF the High Court case succeeds the members of the Armed Forces Pension Group (AFPG) will benefit directly. Non-members will benefit by way of legal precedent (case stated) but will have to take their own case to court for that principle to be activated. Miss Cherie Blair is Leading Counsel for the AFPG! (put hubby on stoppage until he agrees to our demands)

As usual HMG are stalling like mad and have submitted that there is no merit in the AFPG case. In my position I suspect I will not benefit easily even if the case is successful as I will have to go back to my employer, HMG, and ask for adjustments to my pension retrospectively. That is supposing the solution is to allow me added years to my pension rather than a measly payout of 9 years (from age 18) pension at Marine rates ending back in 1972.

Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me (with apologies to Kenneth Williams, Carry On Cleo)

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#8 Post by barryc »

Sorry fellas, I missed this thread when it started. I too share with Sisyphus the pension problem, anyone not doing the full 22 and not serving beyond 1975 doesn't get a pension or pension entitlement. I am now a (hush) civil servant and by virtue of serving almost 11 years in the Corps (girls time) I am disqualified from ever putting in the time needed for a full pension. The inequality came to light apparently through military people working alongside civil servants at GCHQ and then staying on there after leaving the forces, only to find that they had been working for no pension benefit whilst their civil service colleagues were adding up the years.

Richmond's fee is currently £300 ( the initial £200 plus a top-up) IF the High Court case succeeds the members of the Armed Forces Pension Group (AFPG) will benefit directly. Non-members will benefit by way of legal precedent (case stated) but will have to take their own case to court for that principle to be activated. Miss Cherie Blair is Leading Counsel for the AFPG! (put hubby on stoppage until he agrees to our demands)

As usual HMG are stalling like mad and have submitted that there is no merit in the AFPG case. In my position I suspect I will not benefit easily even if the case is successful as I will have to go back to my employer, HMG, and ask for adjustments to my pension retrospectively. That is supposing the solution is to allow me added years to my pension rather than a measly payout of 9 years (from age 18) pension at Marine rates ending back in 1972.

Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me (with apologies to Kenneth Williams, Carry On Cleo)

Barry
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#9 Post by Sisyphus »

Barry, cheers. I'll keep watching.

Rob, finally dug out my R138 from the packing boxes. Mine says "Pension forfeited". I'm going to claim I was 16 when I signed it and didn't have a clue what I was doing. OK, I still don't but that's different!

hawkeye

#10 Post by hawkeye »

well chaps things arn't any different today i left 2 yrs ago after doing 9 i was told at the time have a desk job or medical discharge. i chose the discharge i'd reached the peak of my service been there done that i was told by a c'o to accept a discharge (cartledge problem)after leaving with a pay off i was then told cause of the corps i was in i would'nt receive a penny till i reach 65 im now 29 thats a long way off. oh and not just that i've also had other problems 1:can't join the police or fire brigade because of a medical discharge 2:i never get any reply when asking for a reference 3:after being a member of the elite group people either see you as a liar or a freak. but hey atleast ive been there and done that i now enjoy a every day job driving a truck for a living. thanks goverment i'd love to come face to face to a never has been who makes these rules up in his nice office

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#11 Post by Delboy »

[ Mine says "Pension forfeited". I'm going to claim I was 16 when I signed it and didn't have a clue what I was doing.

I think you have a valid point Sisyphus.

I was 15 ( Jun Bug ) when I signed the dotted line. Changed to GD at 16 and was in Borneo at 17 on active service. At that age you weren't considered responsible enough to vote or drink ( legally), but the Goverment obviously thought you were responsible enough to know that you fully understood what you were signing for as a youngter.

In the case of Junior Musicians, they joined at 14.

Del

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#12 Post by Mike »

With ref the cout case against MOD?Government of this issue.... I have a collegue who's wife is in the same boat She joined up with the solicitors with the asking fee of £200. Apart from a request of a topup of £200+ every yeat they tell me that little or nothing apprars from happening, with the exception that the solicitors are getting a fatter. Can anyone confirm this
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#13 Post by Sticky Blue »

DelBoy, Boy Buglers joined at 14!! If you were clueless what were they? Many were killed in action as well and I don't think there were any pensions (war pensions) paid out for them.
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#14 Post by barryc »

Mike and everyone with an interest,

I've posted before on the issue and I am one of the people who are in the Armed Forces Pension Group which has instructed Richmonds (and solicitors are the top of my hate list, well second anyway with politicians at the top). I think that so far I have coughed up about £380 and am concerned that it is an open ended commitment unless I want to write-off the fees already paid as wasted. About two and a bit months ago the case went to the High Court on a Government request to have the claim struck out. Despite the obvious inequity of pensions being paid before 1949 and after 1975 the court agreed that there was insufficient evidence to support the claim and so struck it out. We were given leave to appeal, but that will just mean more money to line Ms Cherie Booth's handbag. At present I don't know what the state of play is. The AFPG committee should be meeting to decide whether there is any sense in continuing. Obviously the longer HMG can drag it out, the less pensions they will have to pay even if we did win. Guys who were 17 or 18 in 1949/50 are already into their 70s. The British Government have never really looked after those who offer themselves up in the armed forces.

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#15 Post by Mike »

Barry.... Thanks for the above... it would appear that everyone is on a hiding to nothing, I passed your thread onto my colleague who was spitting mad, as he has had nothing from Richmond's.. as you so rightly say, all you are doing id lining the solicitor/ Brief's pockets.
Please keep us updated from time to time
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