Should Blue Beret Marines be re-introduced to the Corps?

[Duty Booty]

With the increased use of non-commando trained personnel within the Corps, is there a case for re-introducing 'blue beret' marines to do some non-combat jobs?

At pesent we are stretched to provide enough man-power to meet the high tempo operational requirements. Some of these gaps are being filled by non-commando trained augmentees from other services, the brigade is also being bolstered by the Rifles. Could this requirement justify a 2-tiered Corps? Tier 1 being commando trained ranks filling combat appointments and tier 2 non-commando trained marines tailored to non-combat jobs.

[Chas]

Duty Booty,

NO- BLUE BERET INDICATES ROYAL.

Since the end of WW2 the commando mantle was passed to the Corps.
This was a happy solution since the RM had both a Corps and commando tradition. Since then the commando ethos has flourished and Lympstone sets the standard. 29 Cdo.Regt RA and 59 Independent Cdo. Squadron RE complement 3Cdo. Brigade magnificently having passed the AACcse at CTCRM.

The Blue beret should remain the exclusive headgear of recruits under training whilst striving to attain the coveted green beret. Remember they are wearing the cap badge of their parent Corps and it remains a constant reminder of their Royal forebears.

Attached units should wear their own regimental insignia and respective
berets.

Individuals attached to Brigade who are commando qualified should wear the green beret with their regimental cap badge.

[HCR]

And what makes you think lads in the Rifles would think of not being considered for combat roles just because they have not done AACC. They are front line combat Soldiers too and should be use as so.

[got1]

You guys never done a UN tour? you don't get the option.
Blue hats all, but you get a nice blue cravat and you can wear your usual stuff on your arms, and wear cushy twill trousers with stable belts and desert boots (the real ones made by Bata.).
We had a cerimonial burial of our maroon berets in 64.

[owdun]

I get well pissed off when people start talking about the Blue Beret as if it was in some way inferior to the Green. Blue Beret Marines fought and died by the thousand on HM ships, Landing craft. MNBDO and dozens of other FIGHTING units,before the Beret Green was even thought of.To suggest it be used as a non-combatant head gear is an insult to those men who fought and died whilst wearing it.If you want non combatant people as back up,use civvy's,as the Police do.


Owdun

[London Boy]

Point of order. 1 Rifles are commandos! They are wearing Commando flashes and daggers and are officially recognised as Commandos and as the first Army Commandos since the Second World War. Quite historic actually.

[Chas]

The Blue Beret belongs to the Corps and as Owdun says
until the Corps decided that the Green beret would be
the official head dress many Blue bereted Marines served
with great distinction. (9 VC's). Think of al the LC marines
on D Day or force Viper in the early days (commandos in reality)
fighting the Japs. The 10th VC Tom Hunter 43 Cdo Commachio.
Also I remind you that in the late 40s early 50s' there were SBS
Marines with war service who were not allowed to wear the Green
beret because they had not passed the Cdo course yet they were
trained to a more rigorous standard. I believe that it was 1960
when the Corps went totally green.
Don't knock the Blue Beret or those who wore it in the past with
great gallantry.

[Sully]

Point of order. 1 Rifles are commandos!

Is that a bite? If not then in what respect are they commandos? Because they've been given a badge? I could have a look around the shed and probably come up with a few of those if they're just going to be given away.

The WW2 army commandos did their training at Achnacarry and every bootneck who might look in on this Royal Marines discussion will have worked hard to join the club. A badge does not a commando make and I'm sure that most Rifles personnel (including the former RGR colour stripey that I was speaking to last week) will be the first to admit it. They should be rightly proud of being in The Rifles but calling them something they're not is just a bit chad.

Also agree with owdun and Chas - the blue RM beret has a similarly (if not more so) proud tradition.

[JR]

When the Owdun and myself joined the Royal Corps in 1947 the strength of the Corps stood at 13.000 men of which about 2.000 were serving onboard ships at that period of time the only Green Berets seen were worn by the 3rd Royal Marine Commando Brigade,The only green berets seen in the UK were Bootnecks marching out of 'Guzz' barracks to join the brigade abroad.
At that time you could have completed a two and a half years commision with the brigade return to the UK and would have to revert to wearing the Blue Beret and minus commando flashes,during the early fifties there was some animosity between green berets and blue,you could return to barracks after foreign service leave and get shouted at for daring to enter HM Barracks Eastney for wearing a Green beret,I returned from the Brigade in 1952 and after attending Amphibious school for landing craft crew I was posted aboard HMS Striker LST(A) and back to blue Beret,between 1952 and 1955 I served on two War canoes and reverting back to the Green Beret on Joining 40 Commando for the Suez Landing.
If my memory serves me right The Green Beret was adopted for the whole of the Corps during the late 50's.
So all this crap about the colour of Berets, the only distinction between the blue and green is you have to work bloody hard to achieve the Green Lid,and after all that small history lesson it's the cap badge that counts. Aye JR

[Chas]

London Boy,

I beg to differ. 1.Rifles are NOT commandos. The April edition of the Soldier Magazine makes that very plain. In fact most of that issue related to the Green machine much to the annoyance to some of Perce. The editor on the front page indicated his reasons for devoting so much space to Cdos and apologised in advance if it caused offence. However some 16 men plus from the 1.Rifles have now taken the AACcse.
My MoD son has given me a copy and I have read it with interest.

[Chas]

London Boy,

COMMANDOS NO WAY.

Direct from Soldier Magazine for April 2008. Front cover reads "Going Green" Tabbing into the 'hoofing' world of the Royal Marines.

Now if your post was a bite well you hooked me.

For the record pages: 32/33.

32: The link-up with 3Cdo Bde is a permanent move for 1 Rifles and the riflemen are being given the chance to prove their committment tothe cause by volunteering to complete the famed- and feared- commando training course at Lympstone in Devon.
Although the battalion hopes to start a major push to get its troops to earn
the title of Army Commando from May 2009, anyone with the mental and
physical fortitude can pit themselves against the gruelling 11- week course now.

33 : Apologies for my error : Twenty infanteers have made it through Lympstone, with three doing well enough to earn the command badge for excellence.

Finally the official Corps History by Ladd, indicates that the Green Beret
came into being for all commando trained men in 1960.

Chas who took the bite.

[London Boy]

Point of order. 1 Rifles are commandos!

Is that a bite? If not then in what respect are they commandos? Because they've been given a badge? I could have a look around the shed and probably come up with a few of those if they're just going to be given away.

Sorry I don't understand Sully, what would I be biting about or for? I'm an ex-rockape not a pongo!

Just pointing out a fact. 1 Rifles soldiers are now apparently undergoing the all arms commando course. So it isn't just a case of sewing badges on, they are actually doing the course!

From MoD - Defence News in March "Although there is no requirement for 1 RIFLES to become fully Commando trained at unit level, opportunities will become available to individuals to volunteer to undertake the All-Arms Commando Course at the Commando Training Centre, Lympstone."


From the intro to their own homepage: "Individuals will complete the Commando Course." And that is about as strong a statement as you can get on the matter "will complete"

And in the recent Combat & Survivial mag, which I never buy, just flick thorugh at Stockholm Central railway station each month, there was an article about individuals from 1 Rifles who have done the course.

I can understand the RM protecting their rep and elite territory, but military requirements have always changed throughout history and new solutions have always been found. Otherwise we'd all still be running around in scarlet tunics and pith helmets!

The demand for commandos is clearly greater than current supply. hence 1 Rifles conversion.

Far be it for me to second-guess MoD strategists....cough *bullshit* cough...but I'm sure they know what they're doing

[London Boy]

No Chas, I wasn't offering bait, I was going on recent info received. If that is incorrect, so be it. And I bow to your greater accessibility to correct gen. Here in sweden, I'm a bit cut off you understand.

However, commando is a term open to all types of military personnel who successfully complete the All Arms course is it not? Hence the name All Arms. Or is my understanding of that compeletely arse backwards as well (genuine question)?

Or is Royal getting a bit jealous and over protective of the commando title (now that is bait and bite if you want )

[Chas]

London Boy,

I am delighted if Perce wants to be Commando trained. In fact the
more the merrier a long as the well respected standards don't drop.
The Corps never holds back on people aspiring to their standard.
In fact they do their best to make them most welcome but jealously
strive to protect it from a drop in those well tested standards.

Best wishes.
Yours aye,
Chas.

[London Boy]

Quite right too, Chas. Standards shouldn't be lowered simply to provide more Commandos when needed in times of war.

However, it clearly must be the case that demand has outstripped supply, due to the high standards, thus the attachment of 1 Rifles to the Brigade with the easier option for individuals in the battalion to complete the All Arms course as and when possible.