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Just a question, slag if you want.

General discussions on joining & training within Special Forces.
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Pilgrim Norway
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#16 Post by Pilgrim Norway »

Mark - it sounds as though you're on the right track - good times - good weight etc ..... don't overdo the weight thingy, it'll be ok on the day.

Check out this - and scroll down to see my rig. Always 'just under' my body weight :wink:

Artist - this'll take you back my mate ..... remember the frames ?
triangular pattern and always in the wrong place..... I still do Bergans
now though - but they are still in the heaviest league - for their size.....

Remember - scroll down to find my reply..... and photographs.
"living off the land" would be like Dartmoor then ?

http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/ ... hp?t=38161
Trog
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_Mark_
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#17 Post by _Mark_ »

gpw2009 wrote:At the end of the day, when you start to tab in Depot, the weight starts off very light, so you don't need to put yourself through it...

Just looking out for you mate....
Appreciate peoples concerns, but i'm fully aware of where or when i'll be pushing too hard/far.

I'm used to running 5-6 miles 3 times in the week and I do a 15miler on Sundays. I've been across (N-S and S-N) dartmoor 4 times so far this year, varying the route to cover different terrain.

I've had shin splints in the past from over training , therefore do understand the concerns expressed.

Obi Wan Kenobi

#18 Post by Obi Wan Kenobi »

Artist,

Your claim to be giving sound and accurate advice in the wake of less informed 'wannerbies' is misleading and, at best, patronising. You slate others, when your own information is questionable.

HM Armed Forces training and especially RM/Para is designed to prepare civvies, who may never have done much physical activity, for their chosen career. But there are many sports, outdoor pursuits etc, that are at least as challenging as RM/Para training.
Later in a Cdo Unit I used a Bergan which still created weals and suchlike when yomping for long periods with 90 odd kilos. It was an accepted part of life as a Royal Marine.
Behave yourself. 90 odd kilos (200lbs)? Which unit was that? The one that used to train snipers to crack a 2 inch group on a figure 11 target with five rounds just using the iron sights from 500 meters?
These days most former Bootnecks/Soldiers have probs with either their knees or their backs or worse as they get older. It is one of the perks of soldiering you get in later life. Ask any former bod who spent a lot of time carrying for want of a better term their home on their back for extended periods of thier life.

I defy any bloke over fifty who's served in the forces whilst having to lug stuff on their back to say that they are 100% fit. I'm a biff and get a War Pension due to my service in my Corps.
I don't agree with the 'most' claim. Do you have accurate figures? Many over fifty year olds who never served in HM Armed Forces aren't 100% fit either. I work with a dozen or so former RMs who are fifty-ish. There are some who suffer from knee or back pain, but most of us crack PT sessions that people half our age would struggle to do.

I recently competed in the Dubai Rugby 7s Gulf Veterans Trophy. Most of our team were the wrong side of forty-five. Four are former HM Armed Forces; one of them (a former RM DL), played last night for our first team beating Dubai Dragons 34 - 3.
Oh I dare say some Superman will say that I'm talking total bollox! Do I care what non-entities who need pulling though with crimbo tree have to say..........No I don't. There are far to many "Supermen" in this world as far as I'm concerned. And all talk total crap!
See above regards long yomps with the 90 odd kilo bergan!

To be fair to Artist, there are former members of HM Armed Forces who do receive disability pensions for injuries related to the training they did during their service time. Some are 'swinging the lead', and those that are genuine are probably no more numerous statistically than people who suffer injuries from rugby, football, boxing, rock climbing and extreme sports etc. In fact many of those in HM Armed Forces got their injuries through pursuing the sport of their choice.
Last edited by Obi Wan Kenobi on Tue 07 Apr, 2009 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#19 Post by HCR »

Obi One
Behave yourself. 90 odd kilos (200lbs)? Which unit was that? The one that used to train snipers to crack a 2 inch group on a figure 11 target with five rounds just using the iron sights from 500 meters?
After a dead letter box replen my Bergen contained a Jerry can full of water, radio batteries, ammo and rations. It was very heavy and I had to tab back to our harbour area with that. Granted it was not that far 2km at most but that didnt weight 200lbs. So I dont know what you need to carry to have that much weight in one Bergan. Lead weights maybe.

Anyway any come back I wont get to read, Im off to Twickers :drinking: :D :D :D :drinking: :drinking: :D :D :D :D
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Chuck him out, the brute!'
But it's 'Saviour of 'is country' when the guns begin to shoot; (Rudyard Kipling)

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#20 Post by gpw2009 »

Obi w@#k wrote:Artist,

Your claim to be giving sound and accurate advice in the wake of less informed 'wannerbies' is misleading and, at best, patronising. .
I know what _Mark_ is doing can be a bit to much, but Obi w@#k is right, there would be better ways to put him on the right track :D

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#21 Post by _Mark_ »

gpw2009 wrote:there would be better ways to put him on the right track
Um.. i'm fine thanks..

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#22 Post by gpw2009 »

_Mark_ wrote:
gpw2009 wrote:there would be better ways to put him on the right track
Um.. i'm fine thanks..
If your fine, why the f*** did you post on here and ask if what you have done is "a reasonable achievement, or is it in anyway at least plausible?" So people could "put you on the right track" possibly? :-?

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#23 Post by _Mark_ »

gpw2009 wrote:If your fine, why the f*** did you post on here and ask if what you have done is "a reasonable achievement, or is it in anyway at least plausible?" So people could "put you on the right track" possibly? :-?
The question was
I would like to know if possible the length of the longest endurance march in selection, and the weight carried in the bergen.
The second question was thrown in for the ones who may have attempted SF selection or something similar.

I've kinda had my question answered, so I have no real desire to have a pointless debate on anything in this thread with you, however if you have anything to discuss in the Para's joining and training forum I'll be happy to talk about things relating to the title of that forum, in that forum :wink:

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#24 Post by gpw2009 »

Yeah sound mucker, thought you were open for criticism though....? :-?

"Just a question, slag if you want." :wink:

Officially left alone now! :D :D

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#25 Post by Artist »

Obi w@#k wrote:Artist,

Your claim to be giving sound and accurate advice in the wake of less informed 'wannerbies' is misleading and, at best, patronising. You slate others, when your own information is questionable.

HM Armed Forces training and especially RM/Para is designed to prepare civvies, who may never have done much physical activity, for their chosen career. But there are many sports. outdoor pursuits etc, that are at least as challenging as RM/Para training.
Later in a Cdo Unit I used a Bergan which still created weals and suchlike when yomping for long periods with 90 odd kilos. It was an accepted part of life as a Royal Marine.
Behave yourself. 90 odd kilos (200lbs)? Which unit was that? The one that used to train snipers to crack a 2 inch group on a figure 11 target with five rounds just using the iron sights from 500 meters?
These days most former Bootnecks/Soldiers have probs with either their knees or their backs or worse as they get older. It is one of the perks of soldiering you get in later life. Ask any former bod who spent a lot of time carrying for want of a better term their home on their back for extended periods of thier life.

I defy any bloke over fifty who's served in the forces whilst having to lug stuff on their back to say that they are 100% fit. I'm a biff and get a War Pension due to my service in my Corps.
I don't agree with the 'most' claim. Do you have accurate figures? Many over fifty year olds who never served in HM Armed Forces aren't 100% fit either. I work with a dozen or so former RMs who are fifty-ish. There are some who suffer from knee or back pain, but most of us crack PT sessions that people half our age would struggle to do.

I recently competed in the Dubai Rugby 7s Gulf Veterans Trophy. Most of our team were the wrong side of forty-five. Four are former HM Armed Forces; one of them (a former RM DL), played last night for our first team beating Dubai Dragons 34 - 3.
Oh I dare say some Superman will say that I'm talking total bollox! Do I care what non-entities who need pulling though with crimbo tree have to say..........No I don't. There are far to many "Supermen" in this world as far as I'm concerned. And all talk total crap!
See above regards long yomps with the 90 odd kilo bergan!

To be fair to Artist, there are former members of HM Armed Forces who do receive disability pensions for injuries related to the training they did during their service time. Some are 'swinging the lead', and those that are genuine are probably no more numerous statistically than people who suffer injuries from rugby, football, boxing, rock climbing and extreme sports etc. In fact many of those in HM Armed Forces got their injuries through pursuing the sport of their choice.
I bow to your obviously superior knowledge as always RC/The Star wars films lover/Steve. All I know is that I'm classed as a biff due to service whilst serving, not due to problems picked up whilst playing rugby, cricket or indeed marbles. Please delete 90Kilos and insert 90 Lbs. An A41/PRC320 would and indeed did bring it up to that weight.

Artist

Obi Wan Kenobi

#26 Post by Obi Wan Kenobi »

Yes 90lbs is significantly lighter than 90 odd kilos. More than half the weight. Take more care when typing.

I don't dispute that you are a 'biff'. My point was that not everyone else is. I creak in a couple of places, but I wouldn't say it was because of anything specifically related to 'Corps' business, I'm just getting old.

Regards
OWK

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#27 Post by Rover »

An interesting article from the MOD.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Defen ... eHaven.htm

Perhaps of particular interest to this thread is the part about Lima Company 42 Commando RM and their 7K 'yomp'.

Even mentions that each man carried "up to 100KG to the objective"

Rover

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#28 Post by HCR »

Rover
Perhaps of particular interest to this thread is the part about Lima Company 42 Commando RM and their 7K 'yomp'.

Even mentions that each man carried "up to 100KG to the objective"

BOLL*CKS

Thats 220lbs, thats just under 16 stone. Even if you filled a Burgen with just sand and soaked it, it would not weight that much.
You could carry that not a drama but not for long distances. 7km is not that far. We carried Burgens weighting 100 odd lbs plus offspray, ammo and in my case GPMG further than that. But that was in the flat desert not on the hills
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Chuck him out, the brute!'
But it's 'Saviour of 'is country' when the guns begin to shoot; (Rudyard Kipling)

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#29 Post by Rover »

HCR,

An interesting response.

You will have no doubt noted that the quote is taken direct from the MOD article.

I believe that only those directly involved would be qualified to comment on the truth of the matter.

Rover

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#30 Post by HCR »

You could quite easy carry that much. But not for massive distances. So a 7km yomp as you say probably might be right. But that weight would include everything. Weapon, ammo, and anything else carried in belt kit. Not just in the bergan. If 220lbs is carried then its the exception rather than the rule. Like ive said Ive carried kit weighting not far that during ops but it wasnt very far, afew km at most. Dont for a minute think that this weight would be carried for 30+km over Dartmoor
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' 'Chuck him out, the brute!'
But it's 'Saviour of 'is country' when the guns begin to shoot; (Rudyard Kipling)

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