Special Boat Service New Cap Badge

[Shoulderholster]

Chunky
Just couldn't resist yanking your chain on that one mate.But it always seemed a bit strange that the SAS in NW Europe in WW2 wore (or most of them) the maroon beret,while the lads in N Africa and the Med continued with the unofficial beige beret.
Any ideas on the reasons for this,I know post war the maroon beret was worn for a number of years.Do you know when the beige one was made official?.
Cheers mate
SH

[chunky from york]

Shoulder, the ones who came back to Europe or joined in the UK, came under the Army Air Corps and were classed as Airborne forces and wore the maroon beret , as they did not have a Corps Warrant, to exist on their own. Even so many wore the beige beret on active service.


After the war the SAS was disbanded and reformed but as the Artist Rifles (SAS) and wore a maroon beret with the 'Mars & Minerva' cap badge of the Artists.


Eventually the Malayan Scouts were formed and when a Corps warrant was obtained they became 22 SAS with the Artists, still the senior Regiment becoming 21 SAS (Artist Rifles) and the beige beret and cap badge re adopted.

[Shoulderholster]

Chunky
Thanks for that mate.It might seem trivial to some but all these details help in the big picture of things.
SH

[davo141]

I find it trival but yet great to read, very good stuff Chunky, I have enjoyed this thread!

cheers, dave

[Oakers]

Any frogs want to comment on this as the potential new badge?

I think it's gash personally. It would have been a lot better if they let blokes keep their original unit badge but on a green lid. Bubble heads don't want people knowing who or what they are and to be honest, if you're in you can spot a frog usually anyway and of course when in Blues or Lovats they stick out like a sore thumb.

By the pure nature of what they are it should be apparant to all with half a melon on their shoulders that it tactically irresponsible to make it obvious.

I wonder if anyone has consulted with the blokes themselves regarding this.

I've always found the two types of blokes quite different. The motto's suggest very different ways of operating as well. No disrespect to any blades out there, except you Chunky old buddy old pal
after your "Corps take the beige and winged dagger on" comment

[Rover]

A few facts of interest.

In mid July 1941 Lt David Stirling was given the authority to form a new unit.

It was Brigadier Dudley Clarke who originated the name 'First Special Air Service Brigade' as a deception plan to make the Germans believe we had a Parachute Brigade in the Middle East.

Captain David Stirlings unit becoming 'L' Detachment SAS.

After the units first operation on 16/17 November 1941 the units name was shortened to SAS and the rest is history.

Now for some the bad news.

The 'original' SBS can be traced back to No 8 Commando---Special Boat Section 1940!

Two founder members of what was to be No 1 SBS were Lt 'Tug' Wilson, later Lt Col DSO and Bar, and Marine W G Hughes.
These two made the first successful SBS raid on the 22 June 1941.

Which would seem to pre-date the first SAS operation not to mention the formation of the SAS by five months and at least a year respectivly!

Sorry Chunky.

As regards ''returning to the fold'' the SBS never left.
It started life in the Commando's and has continued within the Royal Marine Commando's.

Rover

[chunky from york]

Rover, but surely No8 Commando was an ARMY Commando.

Was it the Scottish one ??

[Cobalt]

I actually like the new logo. It's, dare I say it, 'cool'!

[Rover]

Good Morning Chunky

OK OK straws for clutching.

Yes No 8 was indeed an Army Commando.
But as can be seen from the inclusion of Royal Marines the Army even then recognized it needed their support.

I believe it was the Scottish one, but then again wern't they all!!
Eye of nwet for the survival training?

Dare I mention the Royal Navy Commando's?


One thing that stands out about all the different wartime 'special forces' it mattered not the uniform that you had or the country you can from it was the person inside that made the difference.

At the end of the day the same stands for todays forces.

Rover

[chunky from york]

Rover, it is just that David Stirling and most of the 'originals' except 'Paddy Main' came from No 8 Commando.

As you say, it must have been a hell of a unit.

[Rover]

Roger your last Chunky.

Looking into the background of the people in the various 'special forces' of WW2 not one could be termed 'politicaly correct'!

Paddy Mayne was on a charge for striking his Commanding Officer when he and David Stirling got together in the Middle East.
According to some senior officers David Stirling had an 'attitude problem' with authority.

Very much a time of using 'plastic' for the odd fishing trip and a supressed 9mm for the odd curry!!
It is understood that one Commando unit invited the local landowner to a mess function during which he was served his own salmon.

I have even heard that this sort of thing was still happening as late as 1978.

A time of great characters both men and women, not forgetting SOE.

Rover

[barryc]

Don't rate the badge, as illustrated all that highly, it lacks something and is too plain. As for wearing whatever badge on a green lid, I think I object to that too. Putting aside the fact that the SC3 course and/or SAS selection are not exactly picnics ( and I did do the latter in VR format) they are not the Commando Course. The green lid is for those who have passed the commando course, which until recently all members of SBS had. If people can now come into SBS via SAS selection then, hard as it may have been it has never been rewarded with a green lid. An alternative would be to go back to Special Service Brigades, denoted by a green lid, but that would go down like a lead balloon with the Paras and SAS ( and a fair few Booties too I would think). I for one am sorry to see the RM lose the SBS, which used to be Special Boat Section and then Company in my day. I did the watered down (no pun intended) Signaller/Canoeist course and had friends who were similarly or actual SC3 qualified, but still Marines and that gave us a far better rapport and cooperation with Special Forces in the field. I recall the SAS Edwards patrol coming into Little Aden camp before the Radfan ops, they were remote from 45 although billeted with us and only made a reasonable contact by virtue of a couple of their number being ex-Royals.

[Oakers]

Barry,
my assumption was that any SB rank that would wear the green lid would have had to do tests first anyway. I should have made that a little clearer bud sorry.
I agree with what you said regarding the adoption of the green lid by bods who've not earnt it as a no go. I also agree that it is sad to see the changes with SB at the moment and I hope that what appears to be unfolding before us is not as I suspect.

Cheers

Oakers

[chunky from york]

I think we are all looking at too many 'what ifs'. it seems to me that only part of selection for Special Forces is being standardised. If you are a Boötneck and pass basic selection you go on to become SBS, if you are a pongo or other you go on to the SAS

It can only help as friendships are formed on selection as well as mutual respect. I do feel that the SBS rates should have a recognizable badge, why not let them wear Special Forces parachute wings?

The fact that 21 and 23 now do exactly the same tests (long drag was allegedly a couple of miles shorter for the TA) could also help reduce some of the snobbish attitude some of 22 used to have, Barry will bear me out on this. When it comes to reinforcements.

[zuhrich]

http://www.badge-of-pride.com/sbs_blazer_badge.htm