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Fat loss and muscle building

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AJtothemax
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#121 Post by AJtothemax » Mon 08 Oct, 2007 8:59 pm

If its this stuff http://bodybuilding.com/store/tl/zma.html

No. Absolute sh*te. Wouldn't touch the stuff. I've got more than enough testosterone thank you very much. :x
AJ

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lewdog
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#122 Post by lewdog » Mon 08 Oct, 2007 9:07 pm

where do you get all yr info from AJ?
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#123 Post by Stokey_14 » Mon 08 Oct, 2007 9:19 pm

ZMA is Zinc, Magnesium and vit b-6 that stuff you hyperlinked there is the stuff only in a signal tablet form, isn't bad for you if used to the recommended does... although certainly not essential (mind no supplement is!)

Gives you some crazy dreams if nothing else :lol:, the natural testosterone boost that it supposedly creates is still to be proven (certainly isn't a test booster if that’s what you are thinking) but those minerals are often found to be lacking in athletes bodies, due to the increased amount of sweat produced, I believe.

I'll look into cycling Whey see what I can find on it.

Cheers

Stokey

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#124 Post by AJtothemax » Mon 08 Oct, 2007 9:20 pm

lewdog wrote:where do you get all yr info from AJ?
Well, there's always Google which is the easy option. But I have learned from doing research and just from training myself. I used to go to a bodybuilding gym and a few of those blokes really knew their stuff, even the scientific side of things too. I learned quite alot from them, and used it. What didn't apply to me was ok to know, but I just shoved that bit in the back of my mind as it was of no use to me. It's always good to hear another persons perspective on training and how they train. Including their mentality and what drives them. It just makes you apprecaite it alot more.
AJ

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#125 Post by Ed_Bailey87 » Mon 08 Oct, 2007 9:49 pm

Christ on a bike! You guys are a gold mine of info, I look online all the time and try different things out to see what works and fits with my training but this is by far the best web based fitness resource... Maximum kudos to you sir! :D Don't tink I shall be bothering you with any questions for a while, and you were spot on about the pilates, I can already notice the difference! Mind you even with pilates the All Blacks lost :lol: Now all we have to do is kick Frances greasey arse!
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#126 Post by lewdog » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 11:36 am

Well as someone who has been formally trained, I'd have to say that a lot of your info provided on this thread is pretty valid, which is surprising as you often get chaps sprouting out the wrong advice as if it was gospel.

If you really want to improve your knowledge though you should read anything and everything ever written by Charles Poliquin. He's considered the guru's guru and the go to guy if you want to turn your olympic competitor into an olympic champion. Google him or check out his (and many other leading coaches) articles on www.t-nation.com. For nutrition advice look up John Beradi's stuff, the dudes a genius..
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#127 Post by Stokey_14 » Tue 09 Oct, 2007 11:49 pm

you should read anything and everything ever written by Charles Poliquin
I beg to differ on that, (sorry not being difficult on purpose HONEST :P ) but take a look at this thread on Ross training

http://www.rosstraining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19212
I have a kid from the University of Southern California who was 25% body fat. I got him down to 12% in eight weeks, and he gained 25 pounds of muscle."
He really is a genius if he managed that, 25 pounds of lean muscle in eight weeks :o after the First stages of training (often referred to as "Noob gains" :-? ) it's believe that you can only gain 0.25 -0.5 pounds of lean muscle a week, perhaps 1 pound at the most... Poliquin is claming that this lad gained more than 3 times that on average a week.

Just over 3 pounds of muscle a week for eight weeks in a row sounds quite remarkable to me.

Perhaps he did, maybe I’m being ignorant (sorry if that’s the case)... personally sounds a bit un-belivable to me.

Just my view though.

Stokey

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#128 Post by lewdog » Wed 10 Oct, 2007 8:02 am

Stokey pretty much all the techniques and methods that Ross uses have been influenced by Poliquin. maybe not directly but the influence is there. when ever there's a big training break through Poliquin usually has a hand in it.most of the time people dont even know they "doing" his stuff.
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#129 Post by sjuggins » Wed 10 Oct, 2007 9:37 am

I agree with Lewdog, Poliquin is really one of the original trainers and know's his stuff. My trainer (ex british powerlifter) pretty much advocates his methods and uses them himself, and he's trained a couple of british and european powerlifting champions.

I'm with you when it comes to the so called "kid who gained 25lbs of muscle and went down to 12% fat in 8 weeks". Unless this kid was a genetic freak who merely had to look at weights and put muscle on then I think it's a bit far fetched. As you probably know muscle is metabolically active and is really the only thing that continues buring fat at rest, so the more muscle you have the more fat you lose. I could probably see it being possible to halve your bodyfat in 8 weeks, but not to put on that amount of muscle. You can only put muscle on (to that level) by scoffing your face full of food and training like a psycho.

That's one of the problems with strength training, there's so much BS you have to wade through these days to find something genuine.

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#130 Post by lewdog » Wed 10 Oct, 2007 11:13 am

you also need to take into account that when you train with Poliquin you have to sign a non-negotiable contract that says you will train with him for three years! you are then exposed to a battery of tests that are usually reserved for elite athletes like blood profiling, food allergen tests, biosignature profiling etc. you then undergo state of the art scientific training and follow an individualised nutrition and supplement plan.so it is possible that those gains could be real as im sure (and as with any marketing plan) Poliquin advertised his best results.im also pretty sure that particular individual was a genetic freak!I can assure you his methods do work though. I managed to go from 85kg and 11% fat to 92kg and 10% fat all while increasing my strength considerably in six weeks using his methods.
"Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred"

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#131 Post by ofens » Wed 10 Oct, 2007 2:49 pm

I found the discussion on Creatine above really useful, explained some things about it better than I've read/heard in other places.

But what do you guys consider to be the best times to take it?
I've been told different stories about this:
take it first thing in the morning / take it last thing at night / take it two hours before training / never take it before training ...! :-?

What do you think?
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#132 Post by Stokey_14 » Wed 10 Oct, 2007 4:13 pm

But what do you guys consider to be the best times to take it?
I've been told different stories about this:
take it first thing in the morning / take it last thing at night / take it two hours before training / never take it before training ...!
I've heard lots of things on this as well, some of the blokes in my gym mix it with their whey (pre work out) :-? but I personally couldn't say that it's the best time to take it, I think as with a lot of things in the training/fitness game it could be down to personal preference, some people find different things work for them... why not try different times etc and see which on suits you best?

Trial and error, of course look into it and find the do's and don'ts then make a judgment from there.

As for the Poliquin discussion, perhaps I was being ignorant and maybe he can get these results out of his trainees, hat off to him if he can, he a well respected trainer and obviously very knowledgeable, just personally felt like he stretched the boundaries of truth a bit there.

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#133 Post by AJtothemax » Wed 10 Oct, 2007 10:22 pm

Fellas, always be willing to absorb new information and be open to new ideas. Just because someones methods of training 'might' have some principles embedded into it from another method of training, it doesn't necessarily mean it will work the same way or produce better or worse results.

A lot, more than anything, depends on the individual.

All the best.
AJ

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#134 Post by ADDiction » Sat 13 Oct, 2007 4:30 pm

take it first thing in the morning / take it last thing at night / take it two hours before training / never take it before training ...!
Buy a tub, it tells you on the back :wink: .

Seriously though like AJ has already said, every product is different, everybody is different.

If you are looking for simple supplement and nutrition needs your best bet is with maximuscle. It's simple, it's softcore, it's actually British :o !

I think they are still pushing Creatamax, you will find that for around £40 a tub, so you're most likely talking £80 a month. It's worth checking out as it seems to be the complete package, don't expect wonders of course. However they do provide a much cheaper monohydrate, pure, unflavoured, no bullshit.

Nothing wrong with ZMA AJ, it's teen friendly :D . Simple ingredients, which should provide slight gains. Plus you can pick up a month's supply for around £15, so why not give it a shot?

The supplement industry is finally being forced to change it's approach. People are wising up to alot of these bullshit products, therefore we are seeing alot more of these simple but effective products.

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#135 Post by Spence » Sat 13 Oct, 2007 6:09 pm

Yeah ZMA is perfectly safe, unlike AAS it doesn't replace engogenous test, simply promotes the body's own production. Don't forget that the test boosting properties are simply a by product (definatly a useful one!) of rectifying micronutrient imbalances.

Creatine; despite it being the most widley researched supplement on the market (with studies going back over 30 years now) still manages to raise questions. I've heard it being placed in the same catagory as AAS, heard it can be absorbed transdermally, and even been told it will make me infertile. Stupidity is rife in all walks of life, and it seems like it will never go away.

Thought I would share this one with you folks.... I was told the other day that athletes don't need protein, or to correctly quote "only need about 8 grams a day". Needless to say I nearly got thrown out of the pub for trying to create a head shaped dent in the table I was sitting at. I'm not sure what's more concerning, the fact that the person in question was trying to argue the point with me in the first place, or that she had been told this little gem by one of her teachers. This all lead on from her informing me that protein shakes "don't work".

That night I gave myself a new rule, don't try and have a discussion with stupid people. It only ends in tears.

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