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General discussions on joining & training in The Parachute Regiment.
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jstagg
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#16 Post by jstagg » Tue 18 Nov, 2008 5:55 pm

dwarfy wrote:Jstagg,

You really dont seem to like Para's a great deal, is there something your not telling us?
Nah the hole we'r better than you thing is a bit old now, i can't see why they cant' start saying 'We'r the british army WE'R the best.'

just_me wrote:Mate, you are aware that The Parachute Regiment are in fact Infantry aswell? And that other Infantry Regiments do work in Helmand? And that what you just said is the complete opposite of what you said two posts ago?
And surely it's a Maroon lid?
Yeah im well aware of this, and yes i know their infantry units.. thus prooving my point of them saying 'we'r better than all' a bit naff.

Colours i aint fantastic on, o-well.

People realy need to take opinions as an opinion and not as a troll talking.
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#17 Post by jstagg » Tue 18 Nov, 2008 6:01 pm

Fusilier wrote:First let me say I have full respect for the Para's, I just don't like the view everyone else is a poor relation by a FEW.


Jstagg

No disrespect but I alread know and feel that.
Non taken, i can't see why people are purposly missing the point of how i feal on the subject, i have no disrespect for the para's and i've said this in many posts befor! i just aint one to accept the down talking every regiment does to other regiments, i could understand if it was a football match or somthing like that but hearing a guy on a Documentary saying 'i wouldnt trust 'Regiment here' guarding my back! even if i was dead' (example!)

It leaves the spirit of c'mon lads, we can do this! lets crack it' back at the end of 45
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#18 Post by dwarfy » Tue 18 Nov, 2008 6:50 pm

Jstagg wrote:
Fusilier wrote:First let me say I have full respect for the Para's, I just don't like the view everyone else is a poor relation by a FEW.


Jstagg

No disrespect but I alread know and feel that.
Non taken, i can't see why people are purposly missing the point of how i feal on the subject, i have no disrespect for the para's and i've said this in many posts befor! i just aint one to accept the down talking every regiment does to other regiments, i could understand if it was a football match or somthing like that but hearing a guy on a Documentary saying 'i wouldnt trust 'Regiment here' guarding my back! even if i was dead' (example!)

It leaves the spirit of c'mon lads, we can do this! lets crack it' back at the end of 45
Jstagg,

I see your point of view and in part i agree. There is no reason for 'negative' down talking for no reason or simply for the sake of showing off. But you must realise and accept that there is a genuine feeling that guys from certain regiments (Para/RM) genuinely would rather serve alongside the same kind of soldier they know they are themselves, very highly trained and completely proffessional. I see know problem with this, and i dont see it as being 'big headed' or arrogant towards other regiments.

The facts are that the training involved during Para training or Commando training requires exacting standards and knowone will pass out who does not meet these, therefore the guys passing out at the end have met these high standards which are not required in other Infantry regiments, you cannot get away from that. I can only assume this continues on to life in a Battalion or Unit and at the end of the day you will not find many RM or Para's who are not up the task required of them and those within know this and that is why they have trust in each other.

That is not to say that there are not very capable soldiers in other regiments, and very capable other regiments as a whole and there are many within other regiments who i am sure would hold their own in the RM/Para's. Many have done fantastic jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq, and should rightly be proud of what they have done. Many have earnt alot of respect. but the fact still remains that across the board you will not find many RM/Para's left wanting and they are extremely Proffessional consistently. It is no coincidence that whenever there is a 'crisis' that requires the governments intervention through force, that the first thing they think is 'where are 3 Commando Brigade, where are the Parachute Regiment?'....

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#19 Post by jstagg » Tue 18 Nov, 2008 6:55 pm

dwarfy wrote:
Jstagg wrote:
Fusilier wrote:First let me say I have full respect for the Para's, I just don't like the view everyone else is a poor relation by a FEW.


Jstagg

No disrespect but I alread know and feel that.
Non taken, i can't see why people are purposly missing the point of how i feal on the subject, i have no disrespect for the para's and i've said this in many posts befor! i just aint one to accept the down talking every regiment does to other regiments, i could understand if it was a football match or somthing like that but hearing a guy on a Documentary saying 'i wouldnt trust 'Regiment here' guarding my back! even if i was dead' (example!)


It leaves the spirit of c'mon lads, we can do this! lets crack it' back at the end of 45
Jstagg,

I see your point of view and in part i agree. There is no reason for 'negative' down talking for no reason or simply for the sake of showing off. But you must realise and accept that there is a genuine feeling that guys from certain regiments (Para/RM) genuinely would rather serve alongside the same kind of soldier they know they are themselves, very highly trained and completely proffessional. I see know problem with this, and i dont see it as being 'big headed' or arrogant towards other regiments.

The facts are that the training involved during Para training or Commando training requires exacting standards and knowone will pass out who does not meet these, therefore the guys passing out at the end have met these high standards which are not required in other Infantry regiments, you cannot get away from that. I can only assume this continues on to life in a Battalion or Unit and at the end of the day you will not find many RM or Para's who are not up the task required of them and those within know this and that is why they have trust in each other.

That is not to say that there are not very capable soldiers in other regiments, and very capable other regiments as a whole and there are many within other regiments who i am sure would hold their own in the RM/Para's. Many have done fantastic jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq, and should rightly be proud of what they have done. Many have earnt alot of respect. but the fact still remains that across the board you will not find many RM/Para's left wanting and they are extremely Proffessional consistently. It is no coincidence that whenever there is a 'crisis' that requires the governments intervention through force, that the first thing they think is 'where are 3 Commando Brigade, where are the Parachute Regiment?'....
Yeah i do agree, they are some fantastic people and im glad you can see my point, it's just a view i have on the subject, obviously i dont mean to offend people wether they are a walt, RM, Para serving or ex serviceman/woman just disgusing a view.

Hopefully threw my career i can train with the para's and get my wings and the coms and get my dagger..but persoanly i wouldnt hold the view that im better from my training to some ones training in the VET core.. i think every one and every regiment has their own success story and failure.
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#20 Post by dwarfy » Tue 18 Nov, 2008 7:06 pm

Jstagg wrote:
dwarfy wrote:
Jstagg wrote: Non taken, i can't see why people are purposly missing the point of how i feal on the subject, i have no disrespect for the para's and i've said this in many posts befor! i just aint one to accept the down talking every regiment does to other regiments, i could understand if it was a football match or somthing like that but hearing a guy on a Documentary saying 'i wouldnt trust 'Regiment here' guarding my back! even if i was dead' (example!)


It leaves the spirit of c'mon lads, we can do this! lets crack it' back at the end of 45
Jstagg,

I see your point of view and in part i agree. There is no reason for 'negative' down talking for no reason or simply for the sake of showing off. But you must realise and accept that there is a genuine feeling that guys from certain regiments (Para/RM) genuinely would rather serve alongside the same kind of soldier they know they are themselves, very highly trained and completely proffessional. I see know problem with this, and i dont see it as being 'big headed' or arrogant towards other regiments.

The facts are that the training involved during Para training or Commando training requires exacting standards and knowone will pass out who does not meet these, therefore the guys passing out at the end have met these high standards which are not required in other Infantry regiments, you cannot get away from that. I can only assume this continues on to life in a Battalion or Unit and at the end of the day you will not find many RM or Para's who are not up the task required of them and those within know this and that is why they have trust in each other.

That is not to say that there are not very capable soldiers in other regiments, and very capable other regiments as a whole and there are many within other regiments who i am sure would hold their own in the RM/Para's. Many have done fantastic jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq, and should rightly be proud of what they have done. Many have earnt alot of respect. but the fact still remains that across the board you will not find many RM/Para's left wanting and they are extremely Proffessional consistently. It is no coincidence that whenever there is a 'crisis' that requires the governments intervention through force, that the first thing they think is 'where are 3 Commando Brigade, where are the Parachute Regiment?'....
Yeah i do agree, they are some fantastic people and im glad you can see my point, it's just a view i have on the subject, obviously i dont mean to offend people wether they are a walt, RM, Para serving or ex serviceman/woman just disgusing a view.

Hopefully threw my career i can train with the para's and get my wings and the coms and get my dagger..but persoanly i wouldnt hold the view that im better from my training to some ones training in the VET core.. i think every one and every regiment has their own success story and failure.
You cannot make that comparison, as of course you would never have someone from the VET 'Corps' serving alongside you in a firefight in Garmsir. They are not trained to that in the same way an RM isnt trained to care for the well being of animals. Therefore there is no who is better involved here at all, they do different jobs, one is better than the other at their job. However, Infantry soldiers are all trained to do the SAME job.

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#21 Post by jstagg » Tue 18 Nov, 2008 7:27 pm

Yeah well i was just puting it into prespective lol, done it wrong.. no biggy
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#22 Post by Boxingmad » Thu 20 Nov, 2008 8:00 pm

The great thing is that we are lucky as a nation to have the finest military force in the world, with some great military traditions to look back on. Recent operations in Iraq & Afghanistan show that, and recently the British public seem to be getting behind our armed forces, which is good. Recruiting is up as well apparently which is also good.

Doesn't matter what unit you are in, the fact that it's a British military unit is good enough!!
Remember, knowledge is power, unless you forget it all.

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#23 Post by jstagg » Thu 20 Nov, 2008 8:57 pm

I agree, we fuken rawk lol (meant to type that)
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#24 Post by Fusilier » Fri 21 Nov, 2008 4:59 pm

see your point of view and in part i agree. There is no reason for 'negative' down talking for no reason or simply for the sake of showing off. But you must realise and accept that there is a genuine feeling that guys from certain regiments (Para/RM) genuinely would rather serve alongside the same kind of soldier they know they are themselves, very highly trained and completely proffessional. I see know problem with this, and i dont see it as being 'big headed' or arrogant towards other regiments.

The facts are that the training involved during Para training or Commando training requires exacting standards and knowone will pass out who does not meet these, therefore the guys passing out at the end have met these high standards which are not required in other Infantry regiments, you cannot get away from that. I can only assume this continues on to life in a Battalion or Unit and at the end of the day you will not find many RM or Para's who are not up the task required of them and those within know this and that is why they have trust in each other.

That is not to say that there are not very capable soldiers in other regiments, and very capable other regiments as a whole and there are many within other regiments who i am sure would hold their own in the RM/Para's. Many have done fantastic jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq, and should rightly be proud of what they have done. Many have earnt alot of respect. but the fact still remains that across the board you will not find many RM/Para's left wanting and they are extremely Proffessional consistently. It is no coincidence that whenever there is a 'crisis' that requires the governments intervention through force, that the first thing they think is 'where are 3 Commando Brigade, where are the Parachute Regiment?'....

Plenty of good points in there mate and a few I would like to answer.

First, I never met any Fusiliers that cared if Para's/RM's were supporting them. I am not aware that any of the other Infantry regiments have been found wanting in Iraq or Afghanistan. I am not aware that the RM's or the Para's are or have done a superior job while out there. I met plenty good Fusiliers and w@#k**s and the same went for Para's.

Yep the above are great as SHOCK troops, very fit. Hence the Falklands etc. Yet the Para's are not the first choice for UN operations and they never really made a great impression in N.Ireland. Horses for coursers comes to mind. The Marines are a very smaller unit of men, 7200 so can be a lot more selective, that said they alone do not have the equipment to fulfil a sustained military role on their own.

I mean this with no disrespect but a Corporal I knew use to say that the Para's always go on about how good they were because the have so little history.
:wink: :cry:


They are a great Regiment by the way. :wink:

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#25 Post by got1 » Fri 21 Nov, 2008 6:39 pm

[quote="Fusilier"][quote] see your point of view and in part i agree. There is no reason for 'negative' down talking for no reason or simply for the sake of showing off. But you must realise and accept that there is a genuine feeling that guys from certain regiments (Para/RM) genuinely would rather serve alongside the same kind of soldier they know they are themselves, very highly trained and completely proffessional. I see know problem with this, and i dont see it as being 'big headed' or arrogant towards other regiments.

The facts are that the training involved during Para training or Commando training requires exacting standards and knowone will pass out who does not meet these, therefore the guys passing out at the end have met these high standards which are not required in other Infantry regiments, you cannot get away from that. I can only assume this continues on to life in a Battalion or Unit and at the end of the day you will not find many RM or Para's who are not up the task required of them and those within know this and that is why they have trust in each other.

That is not to say that there are not very capable soldiers in other regiments, and very capable other regiments as a whole and there are many within other regiments who i am sure would hold their own in the RM/Para's. Many have done fantastic jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq, and should rightly be proud of what they have done. Many have earnt alot of respect. but the fact still remains that across the board you will not find many RM/Para's left wanting and they are extremely Proffessional consistently. It is no coincidence that whenever there is a 'crisis' that requires the governments intervention through force, that the first thing they think is 'where are 3 Commando Brigade, where are the Parachute Regiment?'....[/quote]


Plenty of good points in there mate and a few I would like to answer.

First, I never met any Fusiliers that cared if Para's/RM's were supporting them. I am not aware that any of the other Infantry regiments have been found wanting in Iraq or Afghanistan. I am not aware that the RM's or the Para's are or have done a superior job while out there. I met plenty good Fusiliers and w@#k**s and the same went for Para's.

Yep the above are great as SHOCK troops, very fit. Hence the Falklands etc. Yet the Para's are not the first choice for UN operations and they never really made a great impression in N.Ireland. Horses for coursers comes to mind. The Marines are a very smaller unit of men, 7200 so can be a lot more selective, that said they alone do not have the equipment to fulfil a sustained military role on their own.

I mean this with no disrespect but a Corporal I knew use to say that the Para's always go on about how good they were because the have so little history.
:wink: :cry:


They are a great Regiment by the way. :wink:[/quote]

Stick to looking after your tropical fish mate :)

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#26 Post by Fusilier » Sat 22 Nov, 2008 9:49 am

Yep thanks for the reply mate, but it is the same as I answered.

The fact is it translates to very little. You say they are superior I answered that, yes in a certain role. I explained that yes they are indeed fit but that is not better trained. Are you saying their weapon or field craft is better than other Infantry units? If yes where’s your proof.

They have not been found to be better performers in resent conflicts i.e. Afghanistan, Eastern Europe or Iraq, so why the superior tag.


I read what you wrote about serving alongside each other. I explained that most other units would not care, in fact would rather have their sister battalions serving with then. What point is that making other than you prefer what you know.

I am not sure if you are or have been a serving soldier but resent history has shown the facts. The Para's/RM's did a great job in the Falklands and really showed their fitness. Now if you check up on the Guards etc you will see they were no poor second, remember Tumbledown etc.

The Para's/RM's never even served IF I remember in the 1st Gulf war. People forget many units , especially Infantry have been doing a great first class job before planes were even invented. They never needed the above then and that was at a time when we ruled most of the know world.

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#28 Post by dwarfy » Sat 22 Nov, 2008 12:09 pm

There are guys in my RMR troop who have spent time in either the T.A or Regular Army who simply say that the standards across the board during our training is in a different league. The atmoshphere and proffessionalism in which it is delivered is what they mostly say is 'different', one guy picked up on the constant kit musters, the constant requirement for EVERYTHING fieldcraft wise to be spot on and the ability for guys to be switched on consistently.

This is not saying in any way that other regiments aren't proffesional, but simply that the standards arent set as high, he also mentioned the fact that within the RMR there is simply NO margin for error what so ever, there are targets regarding phys and performance in the field that are to be met and there is no going round it, you hit them or you fail, suggesting that had not been the case when he went through Basic in the Army, some guys were just being 'passed' through certain things regardless.

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#29 Post by Fusilier » Sat 22 Nov, 2008 3:19 pm

Sandy The Guvnor

dwarfy

If that's your experience mate then I am not going to argue. It was never mine on all the courses I went on.

If you remember the TV program Para's a long time ago you may remember a trainee Para that did the plane jump but could or would not do the balloon. Guess what that man ended up joining 3 RRF, he was in fact a fit bloke. However he was never anything special as a Fusilier or Lance corporal in Anti-Tanks he was just another good all rounded. Had he did the balloon jump he would have gone on to be a Para.

If your weapon or field craft etc training is so much better than no one has noticed, especially in the field where it matters. Funny as over the years I have worked with two Ex-Para’s. One at present and another Ex- Pathfinder. To be fair we all know stories about how bad other units we have met and the Marines are no different. I met them in N.Ireland, good soldiers but none impressed me to the point we though they were special.

I don’t want to be rude because I am not sure how many great Infantry regiments you know but to think regiments like the Scots with the old Black Watch or the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were or are poor relations is just, well silly.

I have had plenty inter-service competitions with your regiments. Boxing, Judo blah blah they won and lost just like everyone else does at times.

Do Para's or the Marines have the edge, do you know I think I will give you that. But if you think you are in the Premium division and the all the others the First then sorry mate but you or your non-coms have not met enough other units.

As a sixteen year old boy I was doing 10 milers with 60 pounds like the rest, and even at that age a quarter of the platoon did not make the grade.

Plenty other Infantry regiments are serving in the Helmand Province, with the same results as your units, no one has noticed that any are so superior to others.

It's true that the SAS has plenty Ex-Para's in them, how come then that other Infantry soldiers also make the grade above Para's that do not.

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#30 Post by dwarfy » Sat 22 Nov, 2008 4:33 pm

Fusilier,

I am not going to comment too much on the levels of successes of different Regiments/Units serving in Iraq or Afghanistan on recent ops. I have not served on ANY and therefore have no first hand experience and would not for one second comment on things i have not done myself.

It is very hard to quantify the way different regiments/units have gone about their work on op herrick, as the situation on the ground from what i have heard from lads who have been out their is changing consistently, meaning new and different challenges/dangers present themsleves to different deployed troops as time goes by. The tour for example that 3 Para experiened when the British forces first went into Helmand is a very different ball game tactically to say that of 3 Commando Brigade on the current Herrick tour. The way the taliban has fought has been consistently different and in responce drills and SOP's on the ground are changing with that.

What does seem clear is that the hand over of operations from the Para's (16 Air Assualt) to 3Cdo Brigade was very well recieved by the Brigade and i have heard alot of very positive rhetoric regarding the depth of information the Para's handed over to the RM and how well they left us prepared for the tour. I have at times heard some not so nice words about other Regiments. That said i accept that there will also be stories i am sure about the RM in this vein.

I have two good friends who served on Herrick 6(?) with the Grenedier Guards although both were attached to the Royal Anglians. Both agree massively that they were extremely impressed with the RM who were serving with the Armoured Support Company, saying at times they were a god send and not just because of their VIKIKNGS but because of the 'aggressive' attitude they displayed in contacts of which from their accounts there were many. Again though, many an RM rank had good words to say about their Royal Anglian counterparts too.

If anything i think the fact that so many regiments/units are doing so much good work in Afghan has actually done a fair bit to bring the Forces as whole closer together and there seems to me, to be more of an overall 'US' feeling than previously. As it is, and it should be, a whole overall effort.

Not so long ago, there wasnt a great deal to talk about so the whole who is better banter was all there was to shout about. Now with Iraq and Afghan there is, so its a bit boring. The facts are all British forces are doing a great job wherever they are sent, and what ever it is they are sent to do.

The RM are by far the BEST.......looking though. :lol: especially them rubber daggers. :D

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