Hydration / Protein Supplements

[CheGiven]

Where do people stand on hydration over particular running distances. Over 1.5 or 3 miles, I don't feel it's necessary or beneficial to carry water. However, on longer distances, i.e. 5 miles plus, I guess it could be considered potentially dangerous not to hydrate during the run?

Secondly, I'm thinking about starting to use a protein supplement to aid my body's recovery post-exercise, and hopefully help me develop lean muscles. I've had a look around on the interweb, but there's so many differant brands / variaties etc available. I was wondering if anyone here could recommend any particular products?

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Artist]

Once in training you will drink like a fish whenever you get the chance. Ditto eating scran. I mean you will take ought that is given to you not booze.

Eat & Drink whats put in front of you in other words. Worked for me and thousands of other guys over the last 60 odd years.

Supplements are fine if you have the dosh to buy them.

Artist

[MadAd]

Yes the food is really nice and you wont need any supplements as long as you eat what's there. You can use protein supplements to ensure your body gets high levels of protein on a day to day basis, during training. There are loads of brands. EAS, Sci-mentor (which is very good), Met- rx, maximuscle, Extreme, Garnel etc. Try and stick with the named brands. MEt-rx is very good, doesnt taste nice but has large amounts of protein per serving. And you might want to buy a small pack first as some protein shakes can give you the shits which you really dont want during training. But to be honest with you, eating the right foods can actually work better than protein shakes, eg eggs, red meats, Milk.

[cruicent]

Eating the right food spread over 5 or 6 meals a day would be a better option than protein shakes, which aren't proven to work (it's mostly self funded research), but aren't proven not to, and I think they have helped me . But, if you have to...
You can only take in about 40g of protein in one go, and shouldn't take more than about 1.7g of protein per kg per day.
Look for one that has been made below 50 deg celc if you can (not many say they have...), as above would have destroyed the protein, and mix it with full fat milk as protein needs fat to work.
Excess protein can cause you to put on extra weight and even damage your liver (and make your piss absolutely stink - keep away from body building gym urinals! )

[Spence]

Excess protein can...even damage your liver

Show me one study that suggests this happens.

If you meant kidneys, I would say this; show me one study done on the effects of excess protein causing kidney damage. The only studies that suggest this were carried out on patients already suffering from some extent of kidney damage.

This topic of supplements pops up from time to time and it drives me mad. Supplements are what they say on the tin: a supplement to a comprehensive and effective nutritional plan. They aren't super foods. They won't make you grow wings. Nor will they make you look like Platz after one or two servings. They are just a little bit extra to add to what you already eat/drink. Solid nutrition comes first, supplements second.

It is also interesting how a few people consider it "cheating" to some extent or another. Don't get me wrong, if that is your viewpoint, fair enough. But how is drinking an isotonic drink any different from popping a small amount of sugar and salt into your orange cordial? Or supplementing creatine is any different from eating a whole load of meat?

Or at least thats how I see things anyway.

[Dangermouse]

I'm not sure about taking protein with full fat milk either. Seems to be a bit pointless really, since most people wan't to keep their fat down while building muscle, while the better supplements derive their calorific value from carbohydrate, rather than fat. Just use water, or at most semi-skinned milk. I'm using weight gainer at the moment, which is basically just a protein-carb-creatine mix with other amino acids, on top of my usual 5 meals a day. Excess protein is going to get pissed out of your body, but as long as you stay hydrated I can't see how damge could be done to the kidneys or the liver? Surely a single unit of alchohol would be more damaging than protein?

[Stokey_14]

I'm not sure about taking protein with full fat milk either. Seems to be a bit pointless really, since most people wan't to keep their fat down while building muscle, while the better supplements derive their calorific value from carbohydrate, rather than fat. Just use water, or at most semi-skinned milk. I'm using weight gainer at the moment, which is basically just a protein-carb-creatine mix with other amino acids, on top of my usual 5 meals a day. Excess protein is going to get pissed out of your body, but as long as you stay hydrated I can't see how damge could be done to the kidneys or the liver? Surely a single unit of alchohol would be more damaging than protein?

It could be argued that full fat milk has Necessary good fat in it that could also be useful. The fact is eating high fat diet isn't the usual reason for people getting fat (don‘t get me wrong it is a big contributor)... But simple carbohydrates are much more dangerous, high sugar foods and sweets etc.

I believe although don't quote me on this, but fat is in fact Anabolic and small amounts of saturated fats have been shown to bring down LDL Cholesterol (Low-density lipoprotein)

So don’t see all fat as bad.

I personally use Semi-skimmed but that’s more of a taste thing... I wouldn't see any harm using full fat milk as this alone will not get you fat... Haribo and white bread on the other hand

I’m a bit sketchy on the fact there as this is a bit rushed, so give me some slack if I’m a bit off .

Stokey

P.S. Isn't a single unit of alcohol believed to be good for you? I certainly believe a few pints of ale once a week is better than a bottle of fizzy pop daily… although I suppose you could find something good with everything… just have to way up the pros and cons I guess.

[cruicent]

Kidneys? Im sure thats what I said (although liver plays a part in using protein)
Excess protein (as in very excessive) means the kidneys are working harder than they should, which is why it is believed that it can cause problems. Excess protein is also converted into fatty acids and is burned instead of fat, which can cause increased fat storage.
Fat is needed by protein to be used and for proper metabolism, a lot of protein powders dont contain fat (due to people wanting to keep their fat down - marketing, low fat = more muscle tone), which makes them useless unless you add your own. And of course carbohydrates after a workout or run is more important.
an interesting read about fat: http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths ... ism.html#6
Im not saying dont take it, I do so it would be a bit hypocrytical. Its just wrongly used and taken in excess, and would be much better from natural sources of food.

[Brian-]

A good bodybuilding 'supplement': 1 jar of peanut butter and a box of cheap eggs.

Might set you back 2-3 quid a week, or about 1 pint of ale!

[Stokey_14]

much better from natural sources of food.

Agreed! Much rather have some big juicy steak or chicken breast, huge plate of rice, some nice sauce and a load of grilled veg over a protein shake any day!

Sadly you can't always have a huge fresh meal ready for you. such as me at boxing, sometimes I stay behind, help with some other training, put in a few more rounds on the bag etc and it's much easier to whack two scoops of whey a pint of milk and a cup of grounded oats in a shaker and sock that bag than carrying 3-4 plastic containers containers full of this and that.

Stokey

P.S. Damn you people getting me thinking about food... I’m now craving a fresh chicken sheesh kebab .

[MonsterMunch]

www.myprotein.co.uk

Ace, cheap supplements. No fuss, hassle or added crap, I've used these guys for ages.

And yes, ideally being able to have all that protein rich food is great, but what do you do when you goto the scran (is that what you call it as a bootie?) hall and they've got pizza, some random curry or the worlds dodgiest burgers on?

Supplements are exactly what they say; supplements. They aren't meal replacements, they are just used to boost your intakes of macronutrients, and allow better control of the ratios of each that you get.

[SamForrest]

MonsterMunch is right, www.myprotien.co.uk is great. I too have used them for years. And although there's no substitute for a good diet,some things just need to be supplimented to save time and hassel

If your looking for a good all round forumula id say the Recovery XS

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/formulas/our ... covery-xs/


It's a good after workout suppliment and has good amounts of protein, carbs, electrolytes (for hyrdation and replenishment) and a few other amino acids etc.

I wouldn't get too into suppliments for what were looking to train for. I'd say that Recovery shake would be great, that plus some fish oils and say a multi vit each day would be fine mate.

[davidemmerson]

I've never touched supplements and I never will. Best way to rehydrate yourself is to drink water after exercise. Don't have to much before hand otherwise you'll make yourself throw up.

If you are doing regular exercise you should be drinking plenty of water throughout the day anyway, so if like me you do you run in the afternoon, you only have to take a bit more on before you start. I'm not just talking a few sips or whatever but you get the idea.

I found that when I was running in the morning, I was either drinking too much or not enough. If you feel faint/light-headed then you know you haven't drunken enough and if you begin to get a stomach ache then you may have drunken too much.

Best way to help your body is to eat healthily and in moderation. Don't scrap all fat from you diet just because you want to lose weight. There's plenty of older members on here like Artist, for example who probably didn't use supplements in their training and they still hacked RT training.

David

[SamForrest]

Good point mate. You dont 'need' supplements. But they are exactly what they say they are. They're there just to help you. Waters for example, is fine. But you don't just sweat water, you lose lots of salts and minerals. And some people may not eat 5 a day, plus lots of fruit etc in order to make those back up. So supplements can sometimes be convenient.

A friend of mine who was in Officer training said he had a tub of a carb/postworkout drink in his locker and would bung some in his water bottle and neck it after a thrashing. If you can get away with using anything to aid you then that's fine, it's not as if supplements are addictive, so maybe not being able to have anything in training isn't really a valid reason for not using them before you get in.

I hear what your saying though

[AJtothemax]

Kidney and liver damage??

I don't think you actually understand how much protien you would have to consume for that to happen. Unless you have a medical condition or an undiagnosed medical problem, that's very unlikely. What causes the problem is due to an excess amount of protien, the body cannot break it down into amino acids. This means that your liver and kidneys will be doing alot more work to get rid of what the body cannot use. As I have said before in other threads, your body cannot only absorb so much protien in an hour, let alone a day. So what's left will be exreted as waste. I now weigh 164lbs ok. For me to damage those organ's, I would have to be taking something like 300g or more of protien a day! That's alot for my current bodyweight. You try and eat and supplement that much without throwing up. Supplementing protein is very safe if you stay within the guidelines.

Supplements are there because they are more convenient and add to your intake. As far as taking protien supplements with full fat milk is concerned, you're better off not doing it. If you take it with milk, then semi-skim it alright. Otherwise, do it the best way, take it with water! Most of you have said about weight gainers etc. Well you've given yourself the answer. There will be enough carbo in that without adding fat ontop of it, so you take it with water. A healthy balanced diet will provide you will all the fat you need, that includes milk on your cereal or just having a pint or two of milk a day. So there's no need for adding it into supplements.

As far as whey protien is concerned, you take that with water as well. If you're taking whey then you shouldn't be concerned about adding the extra carbo or fat because you just want increased muscle. That's the purpose of taking whey protien. Whey protien does actually come from milk protiens, however it doesn't contain fat and lactose sugar.

They key things about whey protien are:
- To increase muscle mass.
- To help aid recovery time.
- You'll feel better during your training.
- It can reduce injuries related to training.
- It can maintain a healthy and fit body.


To sum up: Take supplements with water as it will get into your blood stream quicker. The quicker it's in there, the quicker your muscles can absorb them. Simple.

By the way everyone, just a bit more information for you. Protien doesn't need fat to work. It need's carbohydrates.

I hope that's cleared up a few things.