SEAL Training

[mm1306]

What do you want me to expand/verify exactly,rover?

[Illustrious]

-Stands over Mr Kiwi-

Trust me... it won't help you.

[Alfa]

I am presenting facts, they don't tab as much(like artist said they are different).

If they don't "TAB" then just how exactly do they get around? Perhaps they use Sedgeways or maybe something a little more hight-tech like a rocket pack?

I liked the way you mentioned artist to lend a bit of weight to your reply even though he never mentioned anything about the SEAL's not tabbing.

The problem is you can't possibly know that they don't tab much since you've never worked with them or have any kind of first hand experience of what they do when on operations.

I think Rover's point was that half your info that he quoted isn't exactly the fact that you claim it is, for example the BPT don't perform the role of the SBS for the Navy but I'm sure he will respond for himself.

[Rover]

mm1306.

You state the following;

I am presenting facts

You also say that these 'facts' can be verified!

The Oxford Dictionary defines 'fact' as;

Thing certainly known to have occurred or be true, datum of experience (often with exlanatory clause or phrase. What is true or existent.

The same soure defines 'verify' as;

Establish the truth or correctness of by examination or demonstration, support by proof.

To make it simple.
I am questioning the truth regarding the four points that I have highlighted, which you claim as fact.
I am asking you to support your statement on 'fact' by providing some evidence of proof.
For example what is your source of this information?
Perhaps you have 'hands on' experience and are speaking from a position of authority?

I trust I have expanded enough, to ensure my prior post is perhaps more understandable for you.

Many people on this site do not have any service experience, but get information from various web sites.
Some of these web sites also have little or no experience regarding the content. As such tend to be rather misleading

Rover

[druadan]

What do you want me to expand/verify exactly,rover?

mm, you could start by explaining to me the roles of BPT and the SBS, and how exactly BPT perform the job of the SBS "for the navy."

The SF units (SAS, SBS and SRR) are now under the DSF banner rather than the traditional Army/Navy links, but that does not mean they are not performing the same roles. Why does the Navy need someone else to do SB's job when SB still exists?

I don't know about the politics nor have ever heard of FSU/FDU, but to me it seems unlikely that it was the Army who were responsible for the forming of DSF. That would have been a political decision over the heads of the Armed Forces, and the fact that an Army officer was put in charge means nothing - someone has to do the job. If it were a naval officer, would that mean the SAS was then controlled by the Navy? Pure speculation on this point.

[mm1306]

I don't see why they wouldn't be performing the same roles. However if you were an admiral and you needed a naval special operation completed you would want to have your own capability. If you go to directorate of special forces and ask them to do it then you might end up having to do them a favor(there is no such thing as a free lunch), or they might bs you about for whatever reason, or you might want this to be a secret operation with as few people in the know as possible. Before the dsf was formed the SAS had divers, you could say they didn't need them because of the SBS, but the generals would not have wanted to go cap in hand to the admirals.
Here is information on the bpt from an official source:
http://www.royalmarines.mod.uk/units-an ... -units.php

Here is information on the FDU1:
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.4786

They would seem to encompass the SBS role. I am sure that they still work with the SBS but the SBS is not commanded by the navy anymore.

Obviously it would have been a political decision to form the dsf, but they could have been advised in that direction by top brass of the army. There was already a director SAS before that and he took the job of director sf. Also, the SAS back then had far more influence in Whitehall than the SBS and hence would have been able to press their case harder. Read Duncan falconer for more information.

[Darren82]

Fook me

I only posted the vids to show what type of phys could be overcome with a bit of mental toughness

Paralysis by analysis lads

[DWW]

Without getting into the debate I've now seen the whole series. Personally I enjoyed it and took it at face value. So cheers.

[Artist]

Calm the f@#k down

Quite Calm. Just annoyed at "Gifted" Morons giving advice about stuff they know sweet FA about.

Other Moderators have said it and I'm going to say it. Until you hack CTCRM and earn that Green Lid do not presume to give anybody advice concerning RM Training.

And if I was you mm1306 I keep stumm, Rover knows what he is talking about. OK?

Artist

[jammin87]

Darren, good finds on the vids, I found them pretty interesting. Thanks.

[druadan]

mm,

If you were an admiral and you required SF support, you would go through the same channels as anyone else to request that support. You don't just stand up and say, "Hang on a bloody minute, I'm an Admiral, get some of those steely toed underwater knife twirling blokees up here pronto." It doesn't work like that. 'Secret operations?' I very much doubt any Admirals (or any other military officer) will be knocking out many of those without some kind of higher approval.

Where exactly does the RM site say that BPT do SB's job? I think you might be slightly mislead as to what precisely each do.

And FDU looks like a purely recce/ordnance clearing role, not a combat unit. Again I think you may be confused as to what exactly SB do. Which of course you wouldn't know anyhow, as the paper's usually get it wrong and you're clearly not getting information from any other form of 'reliable' source.

Come back with something more than speculation and you're own guesswork, or do one. BTW, Duncan Falconer, good books, don't take them as any more gospel than Bravo Two Zero or that other one. And certainly don't come on here quoting them as fact to blokes like Rover who know far more than you.

[mm1306]

I was actually told about the fleet security unit and directorate special forces etc by a naval officer who served at the time. However he was not in the SBS or any kind of dive team so I shouldn't really have quoted what he said as fact.
Question for Rover: I get the impression from people on this thread that you are knowledgeable about the SBS, I was wondering (if you don't mind me asking) were you in the SBS or did you work with them?

[druadan]

Excellent, a naval officer, the font of all knowledge. I went to school with one of those, nobber then, still is now.

I'm glad you've shut up now.

Listen and learn rather than trying to preach your dits to those in the know. There are several ex/serving on here who know far more than you through firsthand experience; be they badged or not, current or not, there are enough to shoot you down when you start quoting tall tales as fact. Lesson over.

[Rover]

Hello Darren82,

Nothing wrong with the SEAL vids, well worth posting.

mm1306.

Well, you have shot yourself in the foot at least four times.
But will you learn from it?

Your so called 'facts' have been amongest the biggest load of rubbish I
have seen posted on this site.

I trust you will take note of Druadan's 'lesson'.

Good luck for next year.

Rover

[mm1306]

Wow, considering some of the other nonsense posted on this site I must have been told some pure bs by that guy!!
Alright I'll stop posting on this thread now. I suppose there is a lot of nonsense written and stated about the SBS. I remember reading an article in a newspaper(I think it was the Tmes, one of the major newspapers anyway) about how the SBS is apparently incompetent with so-called "SAS sources" to back it up. If anyone can find it I'm sure it would make amusing reading.