harry hackedoff wrote:Further to my last,
I well remember the time a certain Cpl would whip recruits on the tongue with a nettle if he found they had not cleaned their teeth in the field. If they had farked up, he had them make the declaration "I have no live rounds, empty cylinders blah blah blah, and can I have a dead leg, please Corporal."
This would be carried out with that mixture of ritual humiliation and sardonic humour which ensures there will be no repeat performances. Next time, teeth will gleam and you will not fark up
Same as dirty mess bins get chucked in the gorse or un-buttoned pockets get the contents strewn and the button cut off. It`s all there for a purpose.
Well, Little Johnny writes home to mummy, doesn’t he? Tells her the nettle dit in a "look how much fun I`m having" sort of way. Mummy was not best pleased and she earholes her M.P. "is this any way to treat Little Johnny?” she whinges. Questions were asked in the House and before you could say” Too slow, Lofty, get in the tank" all the new Noddys had the orange "don`t shout at me, I`m new" tabs. Any ex on the common had to have a "safety tent" erected with heaters, just in case it got a bit parky
Times change. The quality of incoming Recruits changes. This is as true for us as it is for Para Reg. The training methods that worked so well in the fifties, sixties seventies eighties etc etc maybe won`t work so well, today.
That the training teams are able to produce Marines of the standard they do, shows me the future of the Corps is in safe hands
And no, I wasn`t that Cpl
Puts my mind at ease, the voice of experience. Thank you.
AJ
"First with your head and then with your heart. Don't stop."
I think it's a shame that young people do seem to have lower fitness levels in general, I'm sure that there are a few lads who are just as fit though and do spend there spare time playing sports (I personally play cricket 4 days a week and box two days a week + I do circuit training on week nights and running 4 times a week and four hours of school P.E) and I love it, I’m never on any games console as personally it bores me the only time sat in front of a screen is when I’m on here and then its all about sports/ fitness/ military etc.
But yes sadly peoples fitness and effort have gone down hill, people dropping out of 400m races struggling in quite light warm ups etc and its not just to do with the fact they would rather sit on corners and talk or glue them self's and play ZOMBE KILLR 12. Its also a diet thing, I see lads and girls my age come into school in the morning with 2 packets of crisps a bottle of pop a big bar of chocolate and some pick and mix and that’s all they will have for breakfast then come dinner its Pizza and biscuits all the way and I’m sure there tea is similar.
I think more and better school P.E and responsible parents who feed there kids right from day one. For young lads and girls being fit to a decent standard shouldn't be a task and for them who want to be good sports people or even just get very fit then fine they will have to put time and effort in but the amount of kids who are FAT and I men fat not just chubby is bordering on scary there one person I know who has been told it's unsafe for him to do any form of running in P.E as he is to large and he should walk the running races! at 12 that is plan discussing.
As people have said times are changing but I think that beasting and punishments such as the nettle on tong etc should be allowed and not stopped we all know there un-pleasant (That’s the bloody idea) Young men and boys need to buck there idea’s up if there joining the forces for what seems to be a easy time. If you join up you should expect pain and know its for a good reason to make you the best and you should be thankful for that pain as one day the PTI making you run here there and every where in full fighting order will pay off when you have to run in that same kit into battle and you’re constantly on the move for days on end. After all you can’t call up the Taliban and tell them to lighten up because you aching and you want to get a kip.
It’s about time someone did something about all this as well because it’s not going to get any better if we say as we are and I personally hope I don't have to serve along side someone who is going to moan about doing some press ups at 2 in the morning! What’s he going to be like when a mortar round wakes him up after a hour of bad sleep!
In reference to the topic when i was in hunter coy there was some civvie inspection team going around all bases checking out training and my sergeant asked for some of us to talk to them they were asking us questions about beastings and so on and one thing i remember well was have we ever been tanked so i said yes a few times this civvie then went on to say he thought it was bullying to which i replied well this is ctc where your training ROYAL MARINES not civvie street but he kept arguing he thought it was bullying what im trying to say it seems theres to much influence from civilian bodies affecting hm forces!
BUT THAT IS JUST MY OPINION
ex nod was diagnosed with chronic compartment syndrome rejoining eventually.
currently in australia as im traveling the world before i rejoin the marines.
i agree with everything thats been said about the culture of today and so on,but im not so sure about the argument that todays youngsters arent as fit as they were in this past,i would only agree with this on a general level,because of all the reasons stated, BUT i think that a small proportion,the fittest,are as fit if not fitter than the fittest so many years ago,if you follow me.
Again,this is down to the culture of the time,i mean although life may have been tougher back then,they did not have all the sports science knowledge back then that aids the athletes of today,and thus although the training back then may have been harder and more mentally beneficial,this does not mean it was as productive physically.An example of this is the way that RT has been slightly changed over the years,so that the training is more productive with less risk of injury,and each course ordered better so as to minimise the risk ,yet still maintaining the standards of the original course(info on this can be found in that professors work on RM ethos which has been posted in this forum a while back).so while the training back then may have been harder,it was also in a way more counter productive,for instance if more recruits got injured,didnt have enough recovery time etc etc so there is two sides to the argument,but i dont think that having duvets is acceptable in this case,as its not really with the intent on increasing the output of the recruits,unless sheets are so bad that they cant sleep but i very much doubt it!
Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour'
PAGreenwell wrote:It would be very easy to produce healthy young people if they did more sport at school. I would arrange it so there were three lessons of PE a week.
All very well on paper, but what about the people that just aren't interested. Can't do it won't do it. My old man is a PE teacher and doesn't like his job because pupils who actually want to do PE are few and far between (in his school). He sits and moans about the old cliche "its nothing like what it used to be! there's too much theory work to be done now, not enough practical" It's all very well for us to sit here and say just do more PE, but try to get me to do more french whan i was at school and good luck to you. It's a similar situation.
I personally think its a culture thing now. My dads school has a policeman based permanently inside it to keep the pupils in check. When you think of that and you look at the bigger picture, the days of pupils running around a PE hall doing whatever the teacher says are fast becoming a irrelevant thing of the past.
You can't make people become fit and healthy if they don't want to be, but you can try and make them want to be.
I think these days its too easy to stay indoors and play computer games or watch TV. With all the technology around such as Xbox's, Sky TV with thousands of channels, the internet (!) etc its tough to peel yourself away from all that and go out and play footy with your mates if your a kid.
We are quite a lazy society, too scared to let our kids outside for fear of them being kidnapped, eating convenience foods because its cheap quick and easy, all kinds of reasons why we are tackling a child obesity problem. I certainly dont know what the answer is, theres so many factors to consider. Its a tough one thats for sure.
I certainly dont know what the answer is, theres so many factors to consider. Its a tough one thats for sure
armed service?
Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour'
I certainly dont know what the answer is, theres so many factors to consider. Its a tough one thats for sure
armed service?
As in national service? I think that would solve a lot of problems, and I'm all for it, but I dont think it will ever happen.
And create numerous other problems. As has been said numerous times in the thread, what worked a few decades ago will not neccesarily work now.
From what I know, the Royal Marines aren't too conservative, in the sense that it is not afraid to tackle problems and apply new solutions. An example being the Commando 21 restructure. The Cold War ended, so did the Corp sit on it's arse going "The old ways work, they're the best". No, it looked at the current political/diplomatic climate and adapted with what it felt was the best solution to said factors.
I'm sure in 40 years there'll be different ways of doing things.
As in national service? I think that would solve a lot of problems, and I'm all for it, but I dont think it will ever happen.
And create numerous other problems. As has been said numerous times in the thread, what worked a few decades ago will not neccesarily work now.
From what I know, the Royal Marines aren't too conservative, in the sense that it is not afraid to tackle problems and apply new solutions. An example being the Commando 21 restructure. The Cold War ended, so did the Corp sit on it's arse going "The old ways work, they're the best". No, it looked at the current political/diplomatic climate and adapted with what it felt was the best solution to said factors.
I'm sure in 40 years there'll be different ways of doing things.
I agree with what you are saying, I wasnt starting a big debate about whether or not we should bring back the past, it was just my opinion.
Leave the past where it belongs in the past. I dare say the recruits who went though Eastney Bks, Forton Bks, Stonehouse Bks, Deal Bks, Chatham Bks would look at the training of even 60 odd years ago and say it was easy compared to what they had to do.
From what I heard from serving lads back from the gan they gave 100% and did a fecking good job well deserving of the praise heaped on them from all quarters. So lets assume the blokes coming out from CTCRM are still what they have always been. ROYAL MARINES with over 300 years of battle honours unrivalled by any repeat any other armed force.
Thats why we carry the Globe on our capbadge to let people know. From Bunker Hill, Trafalgar, China, Normandy, Malaya, Borneo, Falkland Islands (and thats not even the tip of the icberg)). Give it time and yet more honours will be added of that you can be certain. Royal serves without a moan or a groan but by heck he does the job he's given to his utmost!
[quote]Why not simply offer our boys what they deserve; more benefits for trained ranks, a wage they can actually live on [quote]
that is the only thing that will increase recruitment the youth of today tend to think more on this than other factor, for example to be a marine you need to put loads of work into building up fitness ect yet you will only be making the same a normal infintry soldier so why put all that extra work in also why put all that extra work in and put your life on the line when you can make an extra 15K by being a police officer or fireman so yes untill the giverment brings pay into line with the rest of the public services than there will always be a recruitment problem for the armed forces and in particular elite forces
I agree that armed forces pay in general is too low given the commitment, risk and responsibility involved, but I'm not sure if increasing RM pay would have such an impact on recruitment.
A lot of people are so intent on doing it that they'll overhaul their lifestyle to accomodate the reduced income. I know that if I make it into the corps I'll initially be on about 40% less than I'm on now, but I know I'll be able to go to work and be proud of what I do, and that's priceless.
Why not simply offer our boys what they deserve; more benefits for trained ranks, a wage they can actually live on
that is the only thing that will increase recruitment the youth of today tend to think more on this than other factor, for example to be a marine you need to put loads of work into building up fitness ect yet you will only be making the same a normal infintry soldier so why put all that extra work in also why put all that extra work in and put your life on the line when you can make an extra 15K by being a police officer or fireman so yes untill the giverment brings pay into line with the rest of the public services than there will always be a recruitment problem for the armed forces and in particular elite forces
but you dont join for amazing money you join for the life! and also and comparing infantry regiments to royal and parra reg remember them normal infantry regiments are risking life and limb in afgan and iraq! just as royal and parra reg are!
ex nod was diagnosed with chronic compartment syndrome rejoining eventually.
currently in australia as im traveling the world before i rejoin the marines.
A lot of people are so intent on doing it that they'll overhaul their lifestyle to accomodate the reduced income. I know that if I make it into the corps I'll initially be on about 40% less than I'm on now, but I know I'll be able to go to work and be proud of what I do, and that's priceless.
Whilst this is true in some cases, a lot of people can't afford to live on the <£12k they pay recruits. I certainly got into a fair amount of debt during training, and my commitments were minuscule (small loan and running bikes) - although a lot of that due to beer - compared to someone with a wife and two kids to support. Certainly if you're looking at recruiting more mature blokes with some responisibilities in life an increase in wage would help. I think it may increase more younger lads as well, you look at something and I say "I wouldn't put myself through that for £12k," but then they might for £20k. Does the fact that they're doing it purely for the money make them worse soldiers at the end of it? Everyone has to pass the same tests.
Having said that, when you consider an 18 year old who gets a job as a bank clerk starts on £10-£12k, and the average graduate gets £18k starting salary, it's not bad money in the forces. My friends are just graduating now, I'm already on £19k from Pusser and got three years life experience, plus plenty of opportunities ahead of me. No degree tho Having said that, one mate has landed a job at SIS starting on £24k straight out of uni, gen dit, I didn't believe him til he showed me all the paperwork! Lucky barsteward
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