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dilema

General discussions on joining & training in the Royal Marines.
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unnamedfeelin
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dilema

#1 Post by unnamedfeelin »

hey everyone,

for about 3 years i've thought, on and off, about joining the marines. I'm 19 years old from scotland.

The thing is... i know that war is immoral and the reasons for the iraq war are bogus... i know that its about making money, like how they are privatising everything in iraq now. Is it wrong for someone to join the military IF they believe that the war they will fight its based on false pretenses and for bad reasons?

How do you people justify joining up to yourself? im not asking why you wanna join... i know why it would be great to be a marine... the fitness, the challenge, the experience... obviously better than your average 9 to 5 job. But what i want to know is, how do you manage to train and join up while knowing that as a soldier you'll be used to fight an imperial war.

Now i'd rather this thread doesn't turn into a debate about wether the war in iraq is legal or not. Thats beside the point. The point is, the british soldiers who invaded Iraq were not defending defending britain by invading iraq... saddam couldn't touch us.

So do you hold the view that, the politicians are the scumbags and the soldiers are just doing a job? Or perhaps do you think that your defending britain? Remember that Britain was an empire once, and royal marines were on board the first ships to australia... those soldiers knew they were expanding the empire.

Do any of you actually realise that your fighting in the name of imperialism, BUT still think thats an ok thing to fight for?

I guess thats the main question thats on my mind.

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flo

#2 Post by flo »

Tread very carefully young man.

If you are serious about joining up then the moral aspect problems you have, are ones that only you can address.

Everyone has different reasons as to why they joined up and their reasons may not help you find the inner peace that you are looking for, but ask yourself this, if 'the war' was so bad why is it that we constantly see Iraqi people coming up to soldiers and thanking them for freeing them from tyrony. Just remember that the media report what they want you to see, which is always things that have gone wrong but very rarely the things which show improvement. Its all about politics.

Cliodna
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#3 Post by Cliodna »

Hmmmmm,
Tricky one this, however,

We went to Iraq supposedly for the common good, to help rid the Iraqi people of a tyrannical leader. No probs with that myself.
However it has caused its own set of problems by leaving a vacuum and something of a power struggle twixt the different factions.
Bear in mind that you cannot put Western values on these people, they are tribal by nature and fiercely protective of that.
We are there as a Peacekeeping Force now, although some hold the belief that we are occupiers.
Remember, its not the first time we have been in Iraq, and I'm not talking about during the 1991 effort. We have been in and out of there for a very long time and thanks to the graft put in from blokes like TE Lawrence some of the tribal leaders saw our viewpoint and helped us out.
Then of course other people came along and put paid to all that effort.

Times change though, and different approaches are needed to reflect those changes. There are sometimes when tact and diplomacy just won;t work and a swift kick up the backside is whats needed.
Saddam got what was coming to him, and it was long overdue.

Anyway...how would you feel about going into Zimbabwe to kick Mugabe out.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure.
Would that give you yet another moral dilemma??

I'm afraid kid, that once you take the Queens shilling, you do as you are told and you go where you are sent...no questions asked.
If you dont feel that you could cope with life being like that, then I suggest you go and find a more rewarding and challenging role in life....say, stacking shelves in Tesco for instance.
At least then you won't have anything more troubling to worry about than "do these oranges come from South Africa?" or "Is this Argentinian corned beef?"

Cliodna
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Re: dilema

#4 Post by Cliodna »

unnamedfeelin wrote: Do any of you actually realise that your fighting in the name of imperialism, BUT still think thats an ok thing to fight for?
Meant to say....
whats so wrong with being part of an Empire??
We still have one of sorts, except these days its known as the Commonwealth.
Isn't is weird how the folk that live in the Commonwealth countries and our dependancies have more loyalty to the Crown in the tip of their little fingers, than some of the scrotes who live in THIS country.

If in doubt kid, don't bother joining, the Armed Forces will get by without you, you won't be missed at all.

All this talk of Imperialism.... :roll: you've been watching too much Star Wars.

hc00
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#5 Post by hc00 »

As I see it we were going in to get at terrorism (and as a side result, Saddams tyranny), there are other countries we should have went at first, but due to politics and the fact that we will get more benefits from iraq (such as oil etc.) we went there first.

I dont see why you'd want to join if you didn't agree with the war though, and I dont see many of the wars we'll fight in the future being much diferent.
Last edited by hc00 on Wed 07 Dec, 2005 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wo zhu ni jian kang.

Artist

#6 Post by Artist »

Very Nice Soapbox you have there.

Suggest you leave it out sunshine. I served in the Corp for 18 years and do not take to kindly to some Sprog with PC leanings sounding of about how wrong it is to fight for Imperlist gains.

Without people like me and the poor sods who died defending this Country you would not be able to write this sort of offensive rubbish. Think on that little bit of information before you come on here spouting your PC Claptrap!

Artist

GGHT
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#7 Post by GGHT »

There's no way you can be seriously thinking of joining, unamedfeelin.

SO19
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#8 Post by SO19 »

Agreed, stay out of it.

I've come across people on the internet who have said similar things... "I wanted to join the RAF but I didnt want to bomb people etc etc..." and all that rubbish.

Its a fighting machine pure and simple.
[i]‘We are not interested in the possibilities of defeat’ - Queen Victoria, 1899[/i]

themattmeister
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#9 Post by themattmeister »

It all depends if you're prepared to do a good thing for a bad reason. I'm of the belief that we are after oil and that's why anyone in the west gives one about the middle east in the first place. It's hardly that bad though to depose a dictator for that reason now is it? Everyone in the west uses oil and it would be a tough predicament when we run out and the Arab states led by people like Saddam Hussein have all of it.

The 'anti-war' gang will soon change their tune and get on a new band wagon when they can no longer afford their consumer goods because of the wests lack of oil.

You can see from recent elections that the Iraqi people embrace the idea of democracy as their voter turn out was higher then over here and there weren't any threat of suicide bombers over in Britain. It's just the presence of such bombers who provide any moral dilemma but most of these guys aren't from Iraq anyway their just taking advantage of a country in transition.

Iraq is exactly that, a country in transition. You have to be utilitarian about these things and except that although alot of innocent have been killed it is for the greater good.

People are always bringing up Iraq to me as a reason I shouldn't join but these lefty's are so eager to jump on the anti-war band wagon they cannot seem to even understand that there is more to the military then Iraq.

What about the war with Afghanistan, I believe that was as righteous as
they come they had to be booted out by someone. Also if there is mass rioting in this country who do you think will sort the problem out? When the fire brigade go on strike who does their best to sort out the problem? Who does their best to sort out a crisis if their in the area at the time?
I'll tell you who, it's sure as hell not the frikkin A-team, or all these wet little rag 'philanthropists' lefty anti-military gang who'll jump onto any band wagon so they might actually feel that their miserable existence has some sort of purpose.

That's why I want to fight in the name of Imperialism. :D

Only just realised I like to say band wagon alot. :P

borisimo
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#10 Post by borisimo »

The thing is... i know that war is immoral and the reasons for the iraq war are bogus... i know that its about making money, like how they are privatising everything in iraq now.
thats your opinion, but do you know about the other reasons we went to war?

unnamedfeelin i think you are the victim of too much left wing PC propaganda. Iraq was unfinished business and there were so many reasons FOR the war, its just the WMD's issue kinda hid them. the war was not about about money and privatisation. end of.

yet thats all besides the point, if you sign up, you are the queens property and you do what needs to be done in the interests of the UK.

letsrole
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#11 Post by letsrole »

Borisimo wrote:

yet thats all besides the point, if you sign up, you are the queens property and you do what needs to be done in the interests of the UK.
Not according to Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/stor ... 95,00.html

Doc

#12 Post by Doc »

I have a similar dilema...

About 5 minutes ago I went for a piss, as I stood there I felt a turtles head and was now confused as to wether continue standing or adopt a more sitting type stance so I could squeeze one off.

Any suggestions unnamedplank?

proffered
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#13 Post by proffered »

Sit man, sit!!

Unnamedfeelin, I think that is you have any doubts about the moral situation, then your dilemma is quite easily resolved. Hmm, not really a dilemma then. You either believe that you are part of a system that acts for the benefit of others, and trust your superiors that they are making the right decisions, or you don't believe it and thus shouldn't serve.

I personally feel that Tony Blair made a PR cock-up regarding the Iraq affair, but that the action itself was justified. That said, we have the current situation in Iraq, and we can't undo it. As servicemen and women, you receive the opportunity to help those who need it. Don't forget, lots of civilians feel strongly enough to go to areas of conflict, at their own expense, to help those whose lives have been disrupted.

If you can't console that fact prior to enlisting, then I'm afraid attempting to do it in service is impossible.

More importantly, Doc - what did you decide to do? Befoul yourself, or moisten the floor. Christ, I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions daily :lol:

Doc

#14 Post by Doc »

Put it this way bud......................



:oops:





:lol: :lol:

"Sarn't Major?!"
"What?!"
"Are farts lumpy Sarn't Major?"
"No Doc they arent!"
"Damm it !!!!!!!!!! :evil: shit myself again!! :roll:"

:lol:

letsrole
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#15 Post by letsrole »

A turtles head... what the fark have you been eating?

Well this is going to take some serious thought, so I'm glad I can lend my expertise :D

If you're under a time constrant, it's probably best to wait.

If there are facilities to wash your hands and you're under no time constraint, go for it.

If there are no facilities to clean ones self i.e. bog roll. Personally I would lean towards no, but I'm not going to tell you what to do as you have to make big decisions like this now.

If you are in a public toilet I'd have to say no as well.

In conclusion I would say that it's probably best to wait until your on home ground then let it loose (unless there are no cleaning facilitie then it's a trip to Budgins).

You may want to consider to change your diet to, I hear turtles are no good for the digestive system, especially the head.

Glad I could help, my day is compleate now that I have done a good deed.

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