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The Adjutant Generals Corps' Army Legal Services

Posted: Mon 16 Dec, 2002 4:45 pm
by faddius
Do the RMs use the AGCs ALS during courts martial or is there a Navy/RM equivalent?

Can RMs serve on the ALS (providing they are suitably qualified (academically) or do they have to resign from the RM and re-enlist into the AGC?

Strange question I know...


Posted: Mon 16 Dec, 2002 7:04 pm
by K24io
Royal Navy emplo Legal Officers.

I'd assume they would cover RM as well.

Posted: Sat 18 Jan, 2003 12:20 pm
by El Prez
Why? What are you planning on getting up to? :o

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 11:03 am
by Sully

I had a look at this area as I always wanted to be a lawyer (I had a few scrapes when I was younger - high spirits, nothing more followed by bed, no breakfast etc. - but managed to stay "a man of good character") yet I wanted to stay a part of the Corps. I ended up studying in my spare time for a degree and leaving to finish my studies and get a job in civvy street.

Bootnecks are subject to the Army Act and the Naval Discipline Act so (I think - this isn't really my part of ship and I'm speaking off the top of my head) you could get pongo lawyers prosecuting and defending as well as Jack. The Army Legal Service recruits qualified lawyers only so wouldn't be able to give you a training contract (articles) or financially support you during the one year full time Legal Practice Course (only large commercial firms will do this).

It has been said that military psychiatry is to psychiatry what military music is to music (sorry Sticky - I'm a great fan of the band and even have a cd). I think the same would apply to law - I made tentative enquiries to the ALS a while ago and they were a complete shambles - probably too busy poncing around the wardroom to read any of their letters. I couldn't work for an operation like that and in all honesty I don't think I'd fit in well in the mess.

If you want to be a good soldier, join the corps, if you want to be a good lawyer, join a decent law firm. If you want to combine the two then why not pursue a legal career and join the RMR. Be aware though that the hours in a big law firm can be very long and time off is a premium. Good luck, training contracts are like rocking horse s**t (unless your family have connections and you went to the right schools and university) but as mine don't and I didn't it is possible.

Before anyone wades in with the usual criticism of lawyers, I don't spend my time filling out asylum forms and defending scrotes :silly: who are suffering from NBPE (not been punched enough).

Here endeth the lesson :wink:

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 12:34 pm
by gash-hand
i´m with sully on this one. i´m not a lawyer but i have had the misfortune of having to work with the RN legal weasels on occasion. They´re great at poncing round the place trying to impress women with their ´military law enforcer´s´hat on, but actually pretty sh*te at doing anything constructive.

result...the scrotes who got caught red-handed with x tons of dope got away scot free (although i guess maltese have to take some responsibility for this but legal should have seen it coming - although i guess thats hard when your´re busy looking good)

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 1:26 pm
by Sully
That'll be a few PUFO's on my records then Sticky. Just out of interest do you know what the hanging offences are - something about standing around a fire under a hangmans noose in a naval dockyard whistling with your arms folded? My cd is the Kings Squad one - superb.

Gash-hand, I take it you were a scuffer (term of endearment mate)? A good bunch really - always keen to help the lads out and keep them out of trouble (despite their best efforts sometimes) if it was just a case of mischief or high spirits. But perhaps a bit let down by the brass when they really needed to throw the book at someone. I think I know the case you refer to. If so then someone I work with worked (in a previous criminal incarnation) for the civvy firm that got the said scrotes off. A civvy firm will only look good if it wins the case - perhaps there's the difference.

I've heard of a few court martials falling over on procedural or technical points. Law enforcement has a lot to do with following rules as there are protections for defendants - we all know what the rules are (or should do) - so it shouldn't be difficult for them should it?

By the way mate, my first night at Stonehouse barracks was spent in the salubrious cells there - long story though......:sleeping:

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 1:42 pm
by faddius
Cheers for the input and advice. The relevant websites are awful and the AFCO hadn't a clue (what's new?). I am just finishing my undergraduate law degree now (preparing for my finals by reading militaryforums avidly...) 8) and will be sitting the NY state bar exams next feb '04 but am joining up anyways in March 04. Use the law aspect once back in civvie street.


Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 1:45 pm
by faddius
Doh!!! Duplicated

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 1:53 pm
by gash-hand
hi sully, sorry not a scuffer

i was sigs at poole - hence having to work with RN legal on occasion. In the incident i mention i had to work with this tit who kept telling me to get ´barry or michael or jim´on the phone - like what am I your personal DSF phone book or something?

anyway after about 3 days of putting up with this pratt i asked him if he knew where buster brown lived , when he replied no, i asked him that if he couldn´t achieve telepathy how did he expect me to - i think he got the message but he didn´t speak to me again, but at least i acheived the required end result one way or another anyway

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 2:13 pm
by Sully
Gash-hand - sorry about the SQ slip and for banging on about scuffers :oops: - PM to follow. Did the said tit appreciate your humour?

James - you're welcome. Glad to hear you're going for the Corps - you can do all the legal stuff after you've had some fun. There is fierce competition for training contracts but being a former bootneck will do your CV no harm at all. All applicants seem to have perfect lives - it's like the Hitler youth (our latest batch of trainees here contained two OBE's and two Olympic gold medalists) the experiences you get in the Corps will set you apart - and you will know what professionalism means. I wouldn't bother with the NY exams - unless you want to work in the US - and even then you would probably need to refresh the exams. It's about 2k you would be better off spending on the lash with your mates. Good luck with the exams.

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 2:21 pm
by gash-hand

i don´t think RN lagal appreciated it one bit but everybody els in the room did :P :P :P

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 2:24 pm
by gash-hand
just noticed my god awful spelling - not my fault honest i´m in berlin at the minute and using (attempting) a german keyboard (damn thing keeps marching off and trying to occupy space currently owned by coffee cup)

Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2003 2:25 pm
by faddius
Want to do the NY Bar as my brother is a partner in a law firm there (if I play my cards right I could try to get him to pull strings at some stage :wink: ...)and I want to eventually do international arbitration. It's only 4 months long in any case (friday evenings and saturday day only). leaving me plenty of time to prep for Day 1 of Foundation.