As part of the course I'm on at the moment I have to give a 20 minute presentation; the topic I've been given is:
'Islam: it's origins and traditions from inception to present. If this is a peaceful religion, why is it so closely linked to violence?'
Yes I'm googling etc, but basically if anyone has any (educated and informed) opinions or happens to remember seeing an interesting article etc, I'd be grateful for any input. Basically anything a bit off the beaten track that I'm not gonna turn up through mainstream Google searches or Wikipedia; I'd be especially interested in anything relating to the second part (ie. why is it so closely linked to violence). There can obviously be a number of theories to this so would be interested in personal opinions, but again please with some kind of basis to them.
Either here, PM, or e-mail druadan@hotmail.com
Many thanks
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Presentation - Islam
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sportbilly42
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Whilst not wishing to distract others from the seriousness of your specific request, this reminds me of a question paper I was given many years back which asked applicants to answer the following questions before they were able to be considered for the Board:
HISTORY: Describe the history of the Papacy from it’s origins to the present day, concentrating especially, but not exclusively, on it’s social, political, economic, religious and philosophical aspects and impact on Europe, Asia, America and Africa. Be brief, concise and specific.
PSYCHOLOGY: Based on your knowledge of their works, evaluate the emotional stability, degree of adjustment and repressed frustrations of the following: Alexander of Aphrodisias, Rameses II, Gregory of Nyssa and Hammurabi. Support your evaluations with quotations from each man’s works, making appropriate references. It is not necessary to translate.
EPISTEMOLOGY: Take a position for or against truth. Prove the validity of your position.
EDUCATION: Develop a fool-proof and inexpensive system of education that will meet the needs of all segments of society. Convince both the faculty and rioting students to accept it. Limit yourself to the vocabulary found in the Janet and John reading series.
BIOLOGY: Create life. Estimate the difference in subsequent human culture if this form of life had been developed 500 million years ago, with special attention to the probable affect on the English Parliamentary System. Prove your thesis.
POLITICAL SCIENCE: There is a RED TELEPHONE on your desk. Start World War III. Report at length on it’s socio-political effects, if any.
SOCIOLOGY: Estimate the sociological problems that might accompany the end of the world. Construct an experiment to test your theory.
MEDICINE: You have been provided with a razor blade, a piece of gauze, and a bottle of VAT 69 Scotch Whisky. Remove your appendix. Do not suture your work until it has been inspected. You have fifteen minutes.
PUBLIC SPEAKING: 2600 riot-crazed Aborigines are storming your location. Calm them. You may use any ancient language except Latin or Greek.
GENERAL KNOWLEDGE: Describe in detail your general knowledge. Be objective and specific.
I know this doesn't help but I thought I'd post anyway as you now know it could always be worse..............
Things have moved on in the interim and I understand that job applicants at B&Q no longer have to answer these questions.................
HISTORY: Describe the history of the Papacy from it’s origins to the present day, concentrating especially, but not exclusively, on it’s social, political, economic, religious and philosophical aspects and impact on Europe, Asia, America and Africa. Be brief, concise and specific.
PSYCHOLOGY: Based on your knowledge of their works, evaluate the emotional stability, degree of adjustment and repressed frustrations of the following: Alexander of Aphrodisias, Rameses II, Gregory of Nyssa and Hammurabi. Support your evaluations with quotations from each man’s works, making appropriate references. It is not necessary to translate.
EPISTEMOLOGY: Take a position for or against truth. Prove the validity of your position.
EDUCATION: Develop a fool-proof and inexpensive system of education that will meet the needs of all segments of society. Convince both the faculty and rioting students to accept it. Limit yourself to the vocabulary found in the Janet and John reading series.
BIOLOGY: Create life. Estimate the difference in subsequent human culture if this form of life had been developed 500 million years ago, with special attention to the probable affect on the English Parliamentary System. Prove your thesis.
POLITICAL SCIENCE: There is a RED TELEPHONE on your desk. Start World War III. Report at length on it’s socio-political effects, if any.
SOCIOLOGY: Estimate the sociological problems that might accompany the end of the world. Construct an experiment to test your theory.
MEDICINE: You have been provided with a razor blade, a piece of gauze, and a bottle of VAT 69 Scotch Whisky. Remove your appendix. Do not suture your work until it has been inspected. You have fifteen minutes.
PUBLIC SPEAKING: 2600 riot-crazed Aborigines are storming your location. Calm them. You may use any ancient language except Latin or Greek.
GENERAL KNOWLEDGE: Describe in detail your general knowledge. Be objective and specific.
I know this doesn't help but I thought I'd post anyway as you now know it could always be worse..............
Things have moved on in the interim and I understand that job applicants at B&Q no longer have to answer these questions.................
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Kiwi1988
- Guest
Islam is the child of Judaism. 
]CHAPTER VIII.
ISLAM AND ITS INFLUENCE ON THE TALMUD.
In 622, the Hebrew religion gave birth to a second daughter, Mohammedanism--founded by Mahomet of Mecca among the tribes of Arabia, who had lived unprogressive for ages in the large peninsula between the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf, keeping by the usages received from their ancestors traditionally. Hundreds of years had passed without making any impression on the development of this people, until Mahommed arose, and in the space of twenty years subdued with the
p. 34
sword and by the tongue the whole great land of Arabia. And like a stream of mighty waters the Arabs burst from their bonds, animated by a spirit of war, and fired by religious zeal, tore away from the Byzantine empire the whole of Syria and Egypt, and conquered also Persia, extended their empire to India and Caucasus, on the one band, and to Western Africa, on the other, spreading, at last, over Spain and Southern Italy to the heart of Christendom, preaching Islam, and bearing the banner of their prophet wherever they stepped.
For the second time, after an interval of six hundred years, Judaism witnessed a new faith born, all whose choice portions, all whose good and beauty, were taken from the storehouse of the Talmudic Hagada. When Mahomet arose to say that through Gabriel, the angel, the Lord had destined him to confirm the truth of the Divine revelation previously to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Moses and the rest of the saints who had been on earth, he borrowed only the foundation of his idea from the Hagada of the Talmud. Likewise he borrowed many sayings, traditions, and historic legends from the same source, and these materials served him as the foundation of the principles he prescribed for the guidance of his people. All the Hebrew plants succeeded speedily on the Arabian soil, as if they had been native.
Islam grew in power and soon made progress, political and ecclesiastical, for new forces joined it. It reared a new civilization on the ruins of the heathen culture of Syria. During the first century of its existence it likewise exercised an influence on the scholars of the Talmud. As the Greek spirit had formerly been wedded to the Jewish spirit, so now the Arabian was wedded to it. It might have supplanted Jewish thought altogether had not the many sages, adherents of the Talmud, written excellent books in Arabic, extolling the Talmud, its system and its spirit.
When the Jewish tribes of Arabia, some of these powerful and independent, had refused to believe in the inspiration of the new prophet, Islam arose on its parent Judaism, as Christianity had done before; persecutions, massacres, blood and fire and exile were visited on the adherents of the Talmud. As long as Mahomet had entertained the hope of gaining Jews for converts, his treatment of them was favorable and
p. 35
he enjoined in the Koran not to be inimical to adorers of one G-d. He even wanted to make the date of the fast of Rhamadan on the tenth of Tishri (the Day of Atonement), as well as to make Jerusalem the centre of the pilgrims instead of Mecca. Perceiving, however, that notwithstanding all this, Islam gained few Jewish converts, he turned the enemy of the Jews and became wroth against them ("The Vision of the Cow"; a chapter in the Koran) and persecuted them with fury and bloodthirstiness as infidels. But at his death his hatred and intolerance died with him, the Jews found peace and protection under the Caliphs, and the Gaonim could establish their colleges. When Spain was added in 711 by the General Torick Aben Zara, bright days ensued for the Jews; they were able to devote themselves to spiritual activity undisturbed, also to take a large part in the culture of science which flourished in Spain. Great offices and high posts were given to Talmudic Jews; councillors, authors of law articles, court physicians and ministers were taken from among them. Together with their civic prosperity their spiritual activity made progress, and they made great contributions to Judaism, and benefited their co-religionists. Rarely were they visited by storms, as in Granada, in 1603, and at Cordova, in 1157, and then they suffered only as citizens.
In Egypt, Syria, Fez and Morocco, wherever Islam dominated, Jewish communities flourished. In contrast to this, the study of the Torah decayed in the East, and from Babylonia it changed its place to Spain.
The prosperity and the power of the Jews called forth envy and opposition, resulting in the desertion of some Jews to Islam; and this spirit of opposition was kindled yet more by false Messiahs arising frequently, as Shiraini in 720 and Abu Eiei in 1464, in the reign of the Caliph Merian, who opposed themselves to the Talmud with all their might (the last abolished also divorce). In spite of all that, the Talmud was honored as before. For the Gaonim and the two colleges at Sura and Pumbeditha were as beacons to all the exiled Jews till the second half of the tenth century. Only a singular accident, which happened about 960, put an end to this unlimited and undivided dominion of Babylonia over the Jewish minds. Four scholars had left Sura with the purpose of collecting money
p. 36
among their European brethern, for the benefit of encouraging a more assiduous study of the Talmud at the college of Sura; the vessel being captured by an Arab pirate, the four sages were sold as slaves. One, R. Shemariah b. El'hanan was then brought to Alexandria; there the Jewish community ransomed him, and appointed him as supervisor of religion and teacher of the Talmud in Cairo. The second, R. Hushiel, was sold into slavery at the African coast, and brought to Kairuban. The third, R. Moses b. Enoch was ransomed from his owners after many hardships, at Cordova, where the community chose him as Rabbi. The name of the fourth has not transpired. It is possible that he reached France. The four men, not having attained their object of collecting money for Sura, and its college having been closed seven hundred years after its foundation, brought to an end the spiritual dominion of Babylonia over the Jewish mind and scattered the seeds of Talmudic study throughout all lands.
The college of Pumbeditha, though it continued to exist for some period after that of Sura, spreading the light of the Torah among all the exiled, sank from its preëminent rank, gradually, till its existence came to an end (about 1040). With it was extinguished the light of the Gaonim. From that time the centre of religious activity for the Jews was in Europe. The Talmud had its home in Spain, whence it spread to other countries, as will be seen in the coming chapters.
The Babylonian Talmud
Translated by
MICHAEL L. RODKINSON
]CHAPTER VIII.
ISLAM AND ITS INFLUENCE ON THE TALMUD.
In 622, the Hebrew religion gave birth to a second daughter, Mohammedanism--founded by Mahomet of Mecca among the tribes of Arabia, who had lived unprogressive for ages in the large peninsula between the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf, keeping by the usages received from their ancestors traditionally. Hundreds of years had passed without making any impression on the development of this people, until Mahommed arose, and in the space of twenty years subdued with the
p. 34
sword and by the tongue the whole great land of Arabia. And like a stream of mighty waters the Arabs burst from their bonds, animated by a spirit of war, and fired by religious zeal, tore away from the Byzantine empire the whole of Syria and Egypt, and conquered also Persia, extended their empire to India and Caucasus, on the one band, and to Western Africa, on the other, spreading, at last, over Spain and Southern Italy to the heart of Christendom, preaching Islam, and bearing the banner of their prophet wherever they stepped.
For the second time, after an interval of six hundred years, Judaism witnessed a new faith born, all whose choice portions, all whose good and beauty, were taken from the storehouse of the Talmudic Hagada. When Mahomet arose to say that through Gabriel, the angel, the Lord had destined him to confirm the truth of the Divine revelation previously to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Moses and the rest of the saints who had been on earth, he borrowed only the foundation of his idea from the Hagada of the Talmud. Likewise he borrowed many sayings, traditions, and historic legends from the same source, and these materials served him as the foundation of the principles he prescribed for the guidance of his people. All the Hebrew plants succeeded speedily on the Arabian soil, as if they had been native.
Islam grew in power and soon made progress, political and ecclesiastical, for new forces joined it. It reared a new civilization on the ruins of the heathen culture of Syria. During the first century of its existence it likewise exercised an influence on the scholars of the Talmud. As the Greek spirit had formerly been wedded to the Jewish spirit, so now the Arabian was wedded to it. It might have supplanted Jewish thought altogether had not the many sages, adherents of the Talmud, written excellent books in Arabic, extolling the Talmud, its system and its spirit.
When the Jewish tribes of Arabia, some of these powerful and independent, had refused to believe in the inspiration of the new prophet, Islam arose on its parent Judaism, as Christianity had done before; persecutions, massacres, blood and fire and exile were visited on the adherents of the Talmud. As long as Mahomet had entertained the hope of gaining Jews for converts, his treatment of them was favorable and
p. 35
he enjoined in the Koran not to be inimical to adorers of one G-d. He even wanted to make the date of the fast of Rhamadan on the tenth of Tishri (the Day of Atonement), as well as to make Jerusalem the centre of the pilgrims instead of Mecca. Perceiving, however, that notwithstanding all this, Islam gained few Jewish converts, he turned the enemy of the Jews and became wroth against them ("The Vision of the Cow"; a chapter in the Koran) and persecuted them with fury and bloodthirstiness as infidels. But at his death his hatred and intolerance died with him, the Jews found peace and protection under the Caliphs, and the Gaonim could establish their colleges. When Spain was added in 711 by the General Torick Aben Zara, bright days ensued for the Jews; they were able to devote themselves to spiritual activity undisturbed, also to take a large part in the culture of science which flourished in Spain. Great offices and high posts were given to Talmudic Jews; councillors, authors of law articles, court physicians and ministers were taken from among them. Together with their civic prosperity their spiritual activity made progress, and they made great contributions to Judaism, and benefited their co-religionists. Rarely were they visited by storms, as in Granada, in 1603, and at Cordova, in 1157, and then they suffered only as citizens.
In Egypt, Syria, Fez and Morocco, wherever Islam dominated, Jewish communities flourished. In contrast to this, the study of the Torah decayed in the East, and from Babylonia it changed its place to Spain.
The prosperity and the power of the Jews called forth envy and opposition, resulting in the desertion of some Jews to Islam; and this spirit of opposition was kindled yet more by false Messiahs arising frequently, as Shiraini in 720 and Abu Eiei in 1464, in the reign of the Caliph Merian, who opposed themselves to the Talmud with all their might (the last abolished also divorce). In spite of all that, the Talmud was honored as before. For the Gaonim and the two colleges at Sura and Pumbeditha were as beacons to all the exiled Jews till the second half of the tenth century. Only a singular accident, which happened about 960, put an end to this unlimited and undivided dominion of Babylonia over the Jewish minds. Four scholars had left Sura with the purpose of collecting money
p. 36
among their European brethern, for the benefit of encouraging a more assiduous study of the Talmud at the college of Sura; the vessel being captured by an Arab pirate, the four sages were sold as slaves. One, R. Shemariah b. El'hanan was then brought to Alexandria; there the Jewish community ransomed him, and appointed him as supervisor of religion and teacher of the Talmud in Cairo. The second, R. Hushiel, was sold into slavery at the African coast, and brought to Kairuban. The third, R. Moses b. Enoch was ransomed from his owners after many hardships, at Cordova, where the community chose him as Rabbi. The name of the fourth has not transpired. It is possible that he reached France. The four men, not having attained their object of collecting money for Sura, and its college having been closed seven hundred years after its foundation, brought to an end the spiritual dominion of Babylonia over the Jewish mind and scattered the seeds of Talmudic study throughout all lands.
The college of Pumbeditha, though it continued to exist for some period after that of Sura, spreading the light of the Torah among all the exiled, sank from its preëminent rank, gradually, till its existence came to an end (about 1040). With it was extinguished the light of the Gaonim. From that time the centre of religious activity for the Jews was in Europe. The Talmud had its home in Spain, whence it spread to other countries, as will be seen in the coming chapters.
The Babylonian Talmud
Translated by
MICHAEL L. RODKINSON
interesting
interesting read.
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Kiwi1988
- Guest
lol I did hundruadan wrote:Cheers Kiwi, very interesting. Can you tell me which tract of the Talmud that's from so I can read a bit more? Ta.
Sportbilly, that is precisely why I didn't go to university
CHAPTER VIII.
ISLAM AND ITS INFLUENCE ON THE TALMUD.
The Babylonian Talmud
Translated by
MICHAEL L. RODKINSON
Its an Ebook so you google it you can get the whole book
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goldie ex rmp
- Member
- Posts: 1641
- Joined: Tue 02 Dec, 2003 7:37 pm
- Location: worcestershire
- Contact:
pm me your address i have a power point presentation our Imam uses for staff training 
Last edited by goldie ex rmp on Mon 25 Feb, 2008 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Exemplo Ducemus (By Example We Lead)
"Do not confuse your rank with my authority....Sir!"
"Do not confuse your rank with my authority....Sir!"
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harry hackedoff
- Member
- Posts: 14415
- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
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goldie ex rmp
- Member
- Posts: 1641
- Joined: Tue 02 Dec, 2003 7:37 pm
- Location: worcestershire
- Contact:
It's the bloke from where i work mate lol and it's Imam not Iman as most folk think...........aren't i the educated one. His actual rank if you can call it that is Mufti so he's is quite high up in the Muslim faith worldharry hackedoff wrote:Our Iman?
I thought you were Jewish,
Oi veh, already
Exemplo Ducemus (By Example We Lead)
"Do not confuse your rank with my authority....Sir!"
"Do not confuse your rank with my authority....Sir!"
-
Kiwi1988
- Guest
-
harry hackedoff
- Member
- Posts: 14415
- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
As a moderator I feel I should point out that there are more opinions and answers than simply the Jewish opinions and answers.
The Irish for instance.
I`d love a nice Irish Jew
Sat in front of a roaring log fire, stacks of bread to dip in, can`t beat it
Sorry, what did you say again dear
I`d ask why there is no "live and let live"? Why is there this"with us or agin us" attitude? Is there any hope for compromise when Islam seems happy to stay in the middle ages where secular power is subjugated to religious zealots. Talking of which, orthodox jews, anyone ?
The Irish for instance.
I`d love a nice Irish Jew
Sat in front of a roaring log fire, stacks of bread to dip in, can`t beat it
Sorry, what did you say again dear
I`d ask why there is no "live and let live"? Why is there this"with us or agin us" attitude? Is there any hope for compromise when Islam seems happy to stay in the middle ages where secular power is subjugated to religious zealots. Talking of which, orthodox jews, anyone ?
[url=http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/groupcp.php?g=397][img]http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/images/usergroups/listener.gif[/img][/url]
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Kiwi1988
- Guest
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Kiwi1988
- Guest
Because after hundreds of years of wow I am bored lets Keeeeeel some jooooos, kinda gives people an attitude.harry hackedoff wrote:
I`d ask why there is no "live and let live"?
Why not? Whole world does it must Jews be the only people that can't.Why is there this"with us or agin us" attitude?
Do we look like Mahatma Gandhi ? Who told the Jews not to fight the Nazi's, and see how well that advice worked
There was once apon a time in this world when Islam and Judaism was peaceful, but then man and there ways went and ruined it.Is there any hope for compromise when Islam seems happy to stay in the middle ages where secular power is subjugated to religious zealots.
I personally think both side will never rest until they are both died, or clearly one winner.
Talking of which, orthodox jews, anyone ?
I am very unorthodox, when god made me, he broke the mold
