To all British servicemen and women...

[Alex Fowler]

Thank you for your support in this times of crisis. I am an Irish-American who has not always been kind in my words towards Britain, but since September 11 I have realized that the UK is America's best and perhaps only true friend. In fact, the playing of the US national anthem at Buckingham Palace on September 12 showed that the US and the UK are not just friends but brothers. As a soon-to-be US Naval officer, I look forward to fighting alongisde all of you in the near future.

"Maybe you're the same as me, we see things they'll never see, you and I are gonna live forever"-Oasis



Alex

[BullDog]

I agree with your sentiments and your message is most welcome, The British Have always stuck by the "Right Course" no matter what the public public oppinon is but going on the voice of the majority.

But you as an Irish American can you tell me, (A British Service man who has witnessed first hand the atrocities in Northern Ireland, not only to my Brother Service men and Women but to the Irish people),what your oppinion is of the funding and sheltering of the Irish Terrorist by the Americans principly those in NY? Are these IRA PIRA etc acceptable terrorists because you feel a kindered spirit or do Americans really believe in the freedom of all which these terorist wish to crush in Northern Ireland or just their own freedom of choice?

I know this situation has changed (in the main) since the 11th September 01 but why was it acceptable before this date!?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BullDog on 2001-12-09 11:16 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BullDog on 2001-12-09 11:19 ]</font>

[Steve C]

The various wings of the IRA sent their people over to america to get out of the heat over here and earn some cash for "the cause". Although we hear about this problem alot, in the films about the IRA etc. I wouldn't be surprised if nearly every large terrorist organisation had wings in the US for money gathering operations.

Before sept 11 I think most people saw the americans as not apart of the rest of the world. Now however they seem to have woken up to a certain degree and I only hope that it stays this way.Americans now realise that they are not invulnerable, especially to terrorists.

-Steve C

[Pickerfromhell]

[Pickerfromhell]

Yes... the sleeping giant is "AWAKE". Actually, we were kicked out of the bed! Yes, some topics for discussion here in the states are other terrorist organizations that are quickly being identified as needing attention. Yes, the situation in Northern Ireland has been an issue for discussion. Maybe, the parties involved will settle the issue before "WE" make a house call. The Anti-terrorist feeling here in the states dominates the news now. Every news organization leads off its program with an update. Some are devoted to 24 hr. coverage. The Anthrax scare has people here in the states wary and suspicious. We also hear, some countries diplomats exclaim that it's about time we were involved in this fight.Yes... we're arrogant, we're spoiled, we have plenty to go around and share. We are also, not stupid! Our motto in America is "either you're with us...or you're with the terrorists." We are making note of "WHO" is with us!

[Steve C]

*slips the Giant some pep pills*
Well STAY awake this time!!!

-Steve

[BullDog]

call me a sceptic or even a septic

Welcome to the real world America - like in WWII Europe has already been in combat against terrorism for quite some time, I'm sure now History will be re-written to show the war on Terrorism started on the 11th September 2001 and was waged by the US of A who eventually will "Single Handedly" save the rest of the world...

I think America is a great and formidable power but why is she so inward looking?

There are other troops risking their lives in Afghanistan such as British Troops on the ground and have been for some time as in most conflicts reported on in the press and many which are still unknown by the public at large. Troops involvement In Afganistan is (not counting the Royal Navy currently of shore in support)

1. G Sqn of the SAS doing the Lazer Target Marking (LTM) for the bombers and other int gathering. More recently cleared the fortress caves where Bin and pals were suspected of hiding.
2. C Sqn SBS, LTM, Int, Airport security.
3. 200 Commandos from "Fourty" 40 Commando Royal Marines some deployed on the ground and some in hele support role. (Speculation on my part - likely to have been involved in the fortress cave clearing).

I wonder if this is covered in the US news media in America

Where are Delta Force ? I had the privilage to work closely with them in the late 80's out of Aberdean camp (Shh!) Fort Bragg as part of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) and the Joint Communications Unit (JCU)

The Yanks are good but of a differnt quality to UK forces. Though of course there is a saying that "Quantity is a Quality of it's own"...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BullDog on 2001-12-09 13:33 ]</font>

[Pickerfromhell]

Wait Bulldog...Heck no, we're not going to save anything singlehandedly! We're dumb, not stupid. Of course we need some lessons but, we're quick learners. I'm not sure I understand your meaning about "inward" looking. I believe we are a most charitable nation. We seem to "meddle" in alot of politics overseas. We give our opinion on just about everything. Hell...we even have the United Nations here in the USA.
Open to suggestions...Picker

[Defiant]

As long as the US and the UK arent fighting each other i say we can crush the Taliban and there infidel rebels.

[Steve C]

Before the WWs the US was isolating itself from the rest of the world, voluntarily. Even then during WW2 the people in the US saw no reason to worry about hitler and his gang, that was our prob. The funny thing is though, had pearl harbour not happened, the US would probably not have gotten involved at all. I hear many americans saying that they saved europe, and I agree with them, you probably did save us, but if the japanese hadn't bombed pearl harbour what would have happened? I beleive these would have been the run of events:
1) Hitler overuns europe.
2) Two choices a)He could have stayed in europe and been content with that or
b) seeing the state of the US's defences at the time, would have overun america once he had recovered.

Now I think , although pearl harbour was a tragic loss of life, that it was a gift. It gave the US that kick up the arse that it needed at the time. It's the same this time around, we in europe have been fighting terrorism for along time now, face to face, and finally the US has been given another kick up the arse via sept 11th. You're right picker, that the US is like a giant, all us other countries are ants to it and it's so high up there it tends not to notice the real goings on elsewhere below it.

-Steve C

[Alex Fowler]

Bulldog, the people in the US who give aid to the IRA are mostly 4th- and 5th-generation Americans, many of them have never been to Ireland and never spoken a word of Gaelic in their lives. Most live in Boston, altho there are also some in New York, Philadelphia, and other cities. They aid the IRA in order to make themselves feel special and separate themselves from other Americans. I'm 4th-generation Irish (partially, also German, Scottish, adn English); I believe that Ireland should be re-united and that there may have been a time in the past when the IRA was going about things the right way, but that that time ended a long time ago. When the Irish Republic was new and the British forces in Ulster were still seen by most Irishmen as an occupying force, and were still brutalizing Irish civilians, I think you can make a case that the IRA and similar groups were "freedom fighters", however for several decades the vast majority of Irish people have simply wanted peace, and the IRA (and similar groups on both sides) are simply terrorists out to further their own personal political beliefs. It is important to mention that Protestan paramilitary groups such as the UDF are just as bad as the IRA, but while most Americans believe that Ireland should be reunited someday, you'll find little sympathy for militant IRA offshoots.

The details and all like you laid out aren't being reported in the US media (neither are the details of US troop movements, really) but we all know that your boys are there, and we all appreciate it...most textbooks I've had have done a fairly good job of covering British involvement in WW2, it's the Russian involvement that has been understated (which I suppose is understandable, seeing as how the Soviet government at the time was arguably just as evil as the Nazis). The Delta Force are top-secret, we won't hear about them doing anything But we've had Army Rangers and Green Berets on the ground for a long time, as well as some regular units such as Marines and the 10th Mountain Division in the past week or 2...like I said, British involvement isn't being talked about in the US media in as much detail (details of British units wouldn't mean anything to most American viewers after all), but we know you're there. And we appreciate it.


Alex

[green68stang]

I also want to reiterate the appreciation that is held for our good friends across the pond. The British - along with the Australians, have been unequivocal allies and I for one sincerely appreciate and respect their friendship.

That said, as a US Officer with an enlisted background, I look forward to interacting with others on this board. Being a new board, one can approach it without any of the baggage that accompanies perspectives at other sites. It's a fresh start, and should prove to be both interesting and entertaining.

Shawn

[Gipper]

In fairness to the Americans on issues such as terrorism and war, they really seem to be "damned if they do, and damned if they don't." If they don't get involved such as early in WWII or Rwanda they're criticized for not caring about anyone else but themselves, but if they intervene such as in Haiti or Kuwait they're accused of projecting evil imperialist power for oil or territory.

[Steve C]

Alex, you're spot on with your views of the IRA and other terrorist organisations over here in ireland. Most people here don't really care anymore, the politics over here are extremely complicated and even when there is a so called "breakthrough" in the peace process, almost everyone just shrugs it off, nobody cares. I'd love to see the north reunited, maybe 40-50 years ago it might have been possible, but now it probably never will. The european community is becoming closer together and the individual countries will become amalgamated, so there will be no need. I have a sense that the IRA are eventually beginning to see the light though. The way I see it is, when their hardcore guys from the past drop off, that's it, it will be virtually gone, because none of the youth over here wants to get involved. And yes there are other groups like the UDF and others that seem to stay out of the spotlight that are just as bad, just maybe not as good as pira.

-Steve C

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Steve C on 2001-12-10 10:55 ]</font>

[BullDog]

Alex. It seems that what you say makes sense. But if Americans believe this to be the case don't you think it is a scandal that it was allowed to happen under America's nose... ?

Lets hope the situation changes in light of recent world events...

Not wishing to be offensive (well any more than usual anyway)(Though I use the word you I am not directing this at you personally) if you look through History it is recorded by many people convicted or accountable of atrocities that they were merely doing their duty, I believe we all have a choice, as clearly those 4th and 5th generation American’s do and it is clear that they have exercised this choice in favour of terrorism.

As your President clearly stated “If you help Terrorists, or shelter Terrorists, you are a Terrorist!” - “If you are not with us you are with the Terrorist”

I do see this from both point’s of view and the Irish may have a point as I’m sure all terrorists do in the beginning. But let me ask you a question.

Which of the following is a terrorist action.

a. The attack in Beirut 83/84 when a suicide bomber drove into the checkpoint at the US Embassy killing many US Marines and later another bomb destroyed a C130 full of USMC men just finishing a 6 month tour killing all onboard.

b. The IRA Bomb in Omagh (I think we can all remember the year vividly)

Clue
a. was a bombing on Enemy Occupying Forces and b. was an attack on Innocent Civilians.

My point is not to discredit the USA or their efforts, after all we are on the same side and all want an end to Terrorism. It is to point out that America openly condemns terrorism but has allowed it to grow and prosper in Northern Ireland. They did not (Till now but still to be seen) support the UK Government when called on to do so by extinguishing the strong funding from NY, which caused so many innocent casualties possibly even relatives of those who provided the funding and shelter to the Terrorist. My second point perhaps is to say that it depends on your standpoint what is a terrorist act and what is a direct military action. It is easy for America and Britain to bomb with conventional weapons from the sky’s , but to a smaller country without this technology other methods of delivery have to be explored. It is not how the bomb is delivered that should be questioned but what the target is of that bomb! And again it is clear that the IRA and other Irish-Dissidents deliberately targeted innocent civilians which is clearly an act of terrorism.

Point made I think?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BullDog on 2001-12-10 17:58 ]</font>