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as long as its under 5 times you wont get "spoken to" at the end of the lesson

what do you reckon flighty? would you be happy for your pupils to be allowed to do this?

Big difference between saying 'feck' and 'feck you'...

that was a joke

i thought the smileywould indicate that fact

from now on when im having a laugh ill post *WARNING JOKE*

Sarastro wrote:Big difference between saying 'feck' and 'feck you'...

Sarastro makes a valid point - the F word can be used occasionally to add emphasis or feeling to a point, or even in its literal sense; but when used in an agressive or insulting way, it has completely different pragmatics.

Maybe the insulting way of using the word should carry two check marks on the board instead of one?

but having said that if the class is so unruly and the teachers have lost that much control over the students, is it not plausable that a fair ammount of the kids have already told the teachers to "f*ck off"

Oops, missed the smiley

...and I agree mark, but in my opinion it is the intent behind telling the teacher to feck off which should be dealt with, the words they use don't particularly matter - focusing purely on banning 'naughty' words should remain the preserve of mad old nutjobs like Mary Whitehouse and delusional Christian fundamentalists in the good ol' South.

Remember reading an amazingly funny site a while ago (www.capalert.com I think, if it's still around...well, just checked and it is!) which did movie reviews for Christians...ie movie reviews by the word of the Bible. The self-appointed minister had a particular bugbear about "the worst of all dirty words" [ie the ubiquitous 'feck'...apparently 'arse' and 'girls!' aren't so bad]. Considering this site proported to reflect the word of the Bible, I had to wonder WHO said that word was the worst one around? Surely, if it was anyone in the Old Testament, then it would actually be the, er, Hebrew word for 'f@#k' which would be the worst word in the world? Or if Jesus, it would be Hebrew, Nazarean, various Middle-Eastern dialects of the time, or perhaps even Latin? Can't imagine someone shouting CONNUBIUM! to be particularly offensive myself...besides, how exactly did they decree this? Has 'f@#k' had a direct translation from Hebrew/Latin/whatever in every language down to English for the past 2000 years? Er, no. So presumably it is the meaning which is offensive, in which case, when used in that context, why don't the words 'sex', 'intercourse', 'rodger', 'hump', etc etc also win at being the worst words of all time?

All of which is a long-winded way of saying...they're full of, er, shit.

like you say, its the intent rather than the word

and id say its more to do with standards and lack of respect rather than the meaning or severity of the word itself

i did swear in class from time to time depending on the teacher and if i respected them or not, i was not a well behaved student at all, im not having a go at the kids

but once you let standards slip kids will have to go further and further to break the rules

when swearing in class is the norm and accepted, what does one do to be rebelious and appear 'ard in front of ones mates

whats the next step down?

I think people would say it 4 times to the teacher just so they can get away with it.

No child in any of my classes would get away with using language like that.

It is inexcusable and no teacher worth his or her salt would tolerate such behaviour.

End of.

Jayne x

Its a complete joke. Teachers should be taking a zero tolerance approah to bad behaviour, not appeasing those who step out of line. I swear quite a lot when talking to mates, just like anyone would, but never around anyone that could take offence - ie: my parents and peers. Thats because in the past if I did swear in my parents presence, id be instantly punished.

We see this kind of appeasement in all walks of scoeity though. Criminals are often let of with a warning for stepping out of line, which is often interpreted that they can get away with it. Gangs of youths who cause trouble will just get a ticking off from the police. It shouldnt be three strikes and your out. It should be one wrongdoing and you get punished.

Though, I agree swearing by itself isnt neccessary bad - its just language. It appears in poems, music, interviews, and other everyday occurances. It may cause some to take offence, but it doesnt mean that any offence was intended. But if you start calling someone a c@#t, or telling someone to f@#k off to cause offence, it is wrong. Though in that situation it is the attitude that needs sorting out, not the language.

If a group in kids in class swear now and then, thats fine as long as it doesnt cause offense (ie: 'its f@#k freezing in here') - although they should have to. If its something like 'f@#k off you peace of shit' then it is a problem.

It seems like people are giving in to yob culture nowadays, if the next generation are incapable of having the self restraint to not swear in front of authority figures and no one's prepared to reprimand them for it than the country is going down the drain.

If people can't manage basic manners, that show you RESPECT people, their not going to be prepared to go out their way for anybody else in the future.

I'm in fear of the day I become old and defenceless and the place is overrun by the spawn of this scum.

It's the parents fault, sterilisation is the only way forward.

I agree that people are affraid to face the problem. Assault and robbery is often called 'yob culture', someone gets shot and its contributed to Britains 'gun culture.' There was no crime before people started wearing hoodies. Every one that smokes pot is going to turn to hard drugs and if 24hr drinking is inroduced everyone will become an alcoholic.

You have to take each case individualy and give them punishments that fit the crime. We need the death penalty for murderers, drug dealers and career criminals, harsher punishments and sterilisation of criminals.

Jail should serve three purposes - to punish the criminal, to act as a deterrent and to take them off the streets. But today the government seems to be more concerned with prison populations, and has introduced pathetic schemes such as weekend jail, electronic tags and early release.

If prison populations are a problem, build more prisons or cram more criminals into a single room. If human rights lawyers moan, throw them in! We need to hit back at the problems and the police and government should exert thier authority, not appease the criminals and thier soliciters.

It amazes me that we have no hesitation to bomb a country that we deem a possible threat to our society, yet we allow parasites and criminals here to do whatever they like. If people dont think its right to hand out the death pentalty, then I for one dont want to hear anything about dead Iraqis and Afghanis.

And ovcourse, people are too concerned with aslym seekers and ehtnic minorities then brits who tear apart our communities.

Having been a teacher for three years in different schools in Yorkshire this makes me sick, but doesn't surprise me one bit.

The government and notably, many headteachers, Governors and LEA eggheads don't seem to realize that public education, at least comprehensive, is headed towards collapse if leadership at the top is not shown and immediately.

Why is it that school needs to be a consequence-free environment? Verbal abuse, uttering threats, toting weapons, tardiness, sexual assault, vandalism and raping a teacher in one case will get you the sack anywhere but school.

Any classroom ape will tell you that the only reason the abusive behaviour exists is because its tolerated. Once again, lack of tangible punishment is itself the cause of the problem, as it is for street crime in developed countries.

Long serving teachers, like NCO's in the Forces, are the system's backbone. The way things are going, new teachers will not stay in state schools very long, or in the profession altogether, which is the route I'm taking.

Until MP's send their children to sink comprehensives and expereince the bullying and disruption of learning that exists this nonsense won't stop, but we know that would never happen.

Rant over, until next time.

This thread is extremely depressing. It just shows the lack of discipline at home and at school that kids are getting away with.
Lay down standards and the kids will respect them.
Flighty has the right answer. Nobody in her class would ever speak to her in that manner.
When I was young and at school, we respected our teachers, not only because they could cane us - but also because they gave up their time for extra curricular activities.
My hero was a Mr. Bolland. He taught science and also doubled up as a PE teacher. He also taught us sport after school hours!
He was also the head of the local Air Training Corps. I joined and thoroughly enjoyed it. I wanted to be a pilot like Mr Bolland had been.!!
These teachers didn't demand respect - they got it by action and deeds.
I could have been lost to the Corps, (I can hear the giggles already), but I wasn't clever enough to be a pilot. Not enough GCE's.
So the Corps got me instead.
The point I am really trying to make, is that there is not enough discipline in the home or in schools. I do blame the parents for giving in to their childrens demands.
Blimey - I haven't written that much since my last rant at least two years ago!!!
Sneaky