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http://www.guardian.co.uk/austria/artic ... 22,00.html

The above story is about David Irving, the holocaust denier who is on trial for the crime of the former.

Obviously, the holocaust did happen, millions were murdered and the Nazis were fully responsible. But some people do not see it that way.

Do you think that it should necessarily be a crime to 'deny' that the holocaust actually happened? Especially, as with Irving, if that person claims to base his or her beliefs on evidence?

Personally I dont believe that it should necessarily be a crime. Its best to bring something like that - and other issues such as racism, discrimination - out into the open and invalidate them with political debate rather than simply criminalising it and hoping it will go away.

Obviously the laws serve a purpose - to prevent neo-nazis from obtaining a public forum. But is not that contributing to the problem? Such people base thier beliefs on what they consider to be genuine evidence and refuse to accept contradictory evidence. Surely the emphasis should be on preventing the spread of such beliefs through open debate, rather than by criminalising such a belief.

Obviously racism is different in that it often preaches inferiority and violence. But are not people entitled to such beliefs as long as they do not incite illegitimate violence?

What do you think?

Neither, he's just a farkin idiot!

Agreed. But does he have a right to be an idiot?

Yes. dont shut him up. Initiate debate and floor him with facts making him look a fool and not a martyr.

To insult so many people buy saying that the holocaust did not happen was rather a silly thing to, yet he claims to be an intelligent man. So why did he make these claims, was it just to stoke up troubles with the Noe Nazis. I for one are always preaching that you should obey the laws of the country that you are in, now there where a lot of people that informed him that he would be breaking the law in making these fanciful statements, yet he went a head and made them. Why did he go ahead and make these statements, well he hates Jews,and I think both Germany and Austria don't want to go down this path again. I think three years in jail will be as warning to any one that wants to stir up trouble in this part of the world. I for one don't feel sorry for him.

Tab i agree with you 100% after visiting Bergen belsen and a number of war cemetries out here in Germany I think this 'intelligent' man deserves his 3 years penance in prison. The germans know what happened and have been working towards a better future for all. The children are made to attend history lessons including a visit to a concentration camp so they can understand what there forefathers did. Out here if you even make the nazi salute you will get an automatic 2 week prison sentence.
I believe he got his just deserts.

Perhaps he was unlucky to be tried in a country whose law says that he did was a crime. He deserves to be punished .

He used the opportunity to publicise his new book when holding it up to the cameras on entering the court area.

He didn't expect to be imprisoned as he already had booked a first class air ticket home for after the case.

He must unhinged

Wasn't it Irving who, when he was trying to sue someone for libel in the UK a few years ago, got a bit confused and addressed the judge as "Mein Fuhrer"?

He lost his case!

Sounds more like Dr Strangelove

It was about five years ago. The court episode even made it on "Have I Got News for You".

He wasnt quite right was he? Gay aswell you know, with a jewish nanny when he was younger.

Austrian aswell.

He has the right to speak his piece. Just like he has the right to be a moron.

The whole point of freedom of speach is to say what you think and let the people listening make thier own judgement. If we stop this surely it become's censorship?

I'm not sure who said it, but they were right.

"I don't agree with what you say, but will defend your right to say it"

The Freedom of Speech is about telling the truth and not peddling lies to stir up hatred. Now if you go around your local streets telling every one that the person next door is child molester because you don't like them, is that freedom of speech and if he then sued you for libel do you think that the freedom of speech would apply as an excuse for doing this.

Tab, I agree with what you say, we can't have people going aroud trying to stir up trouble, I think the problem at the moment is people are worried about what they say just in case the PC brigade jump on them.