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Bush is quoted; people don't just post stuff they made up and pretend he said it (apart from the odd lunatic). Most of it's attributable to press conferences, speeches etc.
As for the rest of it, I don't think you've understood. The points 1-4 are very weak. You say that and so do I. But you also say that they are the position of the 'left'. I would like you explain who the left is and why you connect your points with them.

buford wrote:Crocs, snakes you name it.

I understand that Australian cities are being overrun by carniverous Argentine ants that will soon form a "supercolony" stretching for thousands of miles. Is there anything poisonous that doesn't live down there? Yes, it's true that the same ants are living in California (where they swap e-mails with their cousins in Argentina and Australia), but the Californian ants have become Americanized, meaning that they have run up big credit card bills, eat too many Big Macs and smoke lots of marijuana and therefore aren't much of a problem.

snyder wrote:

Redhand wrote:K, first off, give me an example of how Bush can not form proper thought.

Did you watch his last press conference? Didn't think so.

Thats not a reply, thats a quip. No, i didn't see it...was this where he accidentally said something along the lines of wanting to damage the country?

If its what im thinking...gimme a break!! Waaa waaa waaa, after 9/11 you wanted to tear ass through Afghanistan and the vast majority of the population was for it. So that dissipates and you realize your support was misplaced...is that entirely the administrations fault? No.

America has a history of launching off into wars and then turning their backs on so and so and making a complete screw up of it all, then blaming their prez.

Bush's foreign policy isn't stable, granted...but you wanted a wartime president, and you got it. Now you bitch and moan.

Big White Flash will go off and you won't know what the hell to do besides lash out at some other puny country. Goes on and on...

Point is, in my opinion, the American 5th column left populace is the constant factor for dissent.

You have some fat idiot from michigan who claims to be for the working class, yet lives in a manhattan high rise...

Goes to Europe and tells Europeans that the hijacked flights of 9/11 would of been saved if it was black passengers...

What other nation in history puts up with such dissent...none. You should count yer lucky stars that you can bitch while there is 18 and 19 year old boys putting their lives on the line for something they believe.

If they don't believe it, and voicing it, they're bad for morale and should be discharged.

Redhand wrote:Thats not a reply, thats a quip. No, i didn't see it...was this where he accidentally said something along the lines of wanting to damage the country?

No, it's a reply. I'm talking about the last full press conference. It was a few months ago. The one where he couldn't recall any mistake that he's made. The one where he forgot three questions in mid-answer. The one where at some points he simply didn't make any sense. I thought then, and still think, that he had been drinking before the appearance.

America has a history of launching off into wars and then turning their backs on so and so and making a complete screw up of it all, then blaming their prez.

Um, in the case of the Iraq War it was launched by the prez. I think it's fair that he should take the blame, because if it had gone well you know he'd have gotten the credit.

Bush's foreign policy isn't stable, granted ... but you wanted a wartime president, and you got it. Now you bitch and moan.

His foreign policy isn't the only thing that's unstable. I don't vote for the son of a bitch to begin with, and was not happy that he used his daddy's Supreme Court to steal his way into office. That lying feckless idiot Texan is my shame, but he is not my fault.

You should count yer lucky stars that you can bitch while there is 18 and 19 year old boys putting their lives on the line for something they believe

I absolutely honor their sacrifices. But they've been horribly misused.

The war in Iraq is more about protecting Israel's interests than a true 'war on terror'. Many Americans feel the war was justified when we all went into Afghanistan BUT then the Bush Administration decided to use the war as a excuse to invade Iraq.

This does nothing but throw fuel on the fire - making Arabs hate the west and the west hate Arabs! Maybe now Israel is happy?!!!!!

This is fantastic stuff guys keep it up - great debate!!

Presidential gaffes are not limited to Bush. I can recall at least two Australian Prime Ministers whose names were forgotten by previous US presidents at the post meeting press conference. Much to the consternation of the PM and the amusement of the rest of the country. Sort of lets you know where you fit in the global scheme of things. I've noticed that Bush is getting the current PMs name right though.

Sorry for the long wait on the reply Snyder.

You can think Bush is stupid and whatnot, fine, your perogative. I disagree, but its a pointless debate.

My point here is your country is in a semi-wartime state. You haven't once vouched for Kerry and what he'd do, so im assuming your not for him...no?

So how does spewing hate 24/7 against the guy help out your country?? Whats your suggestion for an alternative?? In a situation when your countries survival is in peril...couldnt it wait??

Greg S wrote:The war in Iraq is more about protecting Israel's interests than a true 'war on terror'. Many Americans feel the war was justified when we all went into Afghanistan BUT then the Bush Administration decided to use the war as a excuse to invade Iraq.

This does nothing but throw fuel on the fire - making Arabs hate the west and the west hate Arabs! Maybe now Israel is happy?!!!!!

Explain how you think this is Israels fault.

Okay - the US has sent more tax money to Israel than it spent on the entire Apollo space program...........

The deputy secutary of defense is Jewish (Paul Wolfowitz)........

I think you can see a pattern..........plus Bush talked constantly before the war about 'bringing democracy to that region of the world'. Which is nice in practice, but only now are we starting to see the true effects of starting a war in Iraq.

If the clerics get their way, Iraq looks like going down the same path as Iran. NOT good!

NOTE: I didn't say it is Israels fault but by them putting up huge walls like the commies did with the 'Iron Curtain' and staling more Palestinian land only makes things worse. What really gets me is how they get away with acting like nazis and then if you say something your accused of being 'anti-semitic'. Hypocracy at its worst!

Redhand wrote:You can think Bush is stupid and whatnot, fine, your perogative. I disagree, but its a pointless debate.

It's only a pointless debate if debate is pointless. Otherwise, Bush's glaring lack of mental presence is an urgent issue. I'm thinking that this is an outgrowth of Reagan, who was always quite limited intellectually and became senile in his second term. Things more or less worked out for the country anyway, so the Republicans and all too many voters figured that it was safe to have a president with the I.Q. of a Golden Retriever as long as he had a smart staff.

I really disagree with this method of governance. For one thing, it's bad symbolism to have a blockhead in the presidency. Secondly, the president himself has enormous power, and if you put an idiot in the job you never know what could happen. Thirdly, we never get a chance to examine the advisors or even really know which of them is pulling the puppet's strings.

Redhand wrote:My point here is your country is in a semi-wartime state. You haven't once vouched for Kerry and what he'd do, so im assuming your not for him ... no?

You mean like being semi-pregnant? The U.S. is at war, but it's not being run that way. Can you think of any other war during which the very richest people in a society were asked to reduce their contributions to the embattled nation? Can you think of any other war during which the wounded and killed were literally hidden from the population at large? I could go on and on.

Kerry doesn't inspire me, but part of the reason for that is that I've been around the block a few times now and I rather distrust inspiration. My attitude these days is I'll make my choice and then draw my inspiration from their accomplishments in office. Clinton was a great example of this. I was only weakly attached to him until he got in, but I quickly gained great respect when he introduced and convinced Congress to pass his first budget in 1993. It was clear to at the time that he was going to fix the fiscal mess that he inherited. Then, as his terms progressed, a whole lot of other things got better, too.

By the end of his time in office, he had greatly inspired me. As for his affair with Monica, I was always one of the two-thirds of the U.S. public who never thought it should have been an issue. As for Kerry, I think he is very intelligent; has a great deal of experience in government; represents my viewpoints on most political issues; and strikes me as personally tough as nails. I am going to vote for him with real confidence. The more I see of him lately, the more my confidence grows. If that's not enough of an endorsement for you, too bad.

Redhand wrote:So how does spewing hate 24/7 against the guy help out your country?? Whats your suggestion for an alternative?? In a situation when your countries survival is in peril ... couldnt it wait??

Our country will survive whatever happens, even another four years of the worst president in at least 150 years and maybe the worst ever. But survival is a very low standard. I want our country to succeed, and for that to happen I think it's vitally important that this incompetent man and his terrible advisors be replaced. I see it as my patriotic duty to try to achieve that within our system, and that's exactly what I'm doing. At latest count, I've donated $8,000 to various efforts to defeat him, not to mention the "Re-Defeat Bush" sign in my yard.

As for "spewing hate," I'm not sure who you're talking about. I have an acutely negative view of our feckless imposter, George W. Bush, but I do not "hate" the man. If you don't like my negativity toward him, too bad. This ain't hearts and flowers. Better get used to it.

Very well said. I always used to think if I lived in America that I'd vote Republican but not anymore.

On the whole Clinton was a good President, he tried calming the situation in the middle east and supported peace in northern Ireland. The greatest leaders stop wars.............and dont create them............

Actually, I think the greatest leaders do the right thing at the right time. Sometimes you've got to go to war. It's not the idea of war that I object to, but the rationale, strategy and tactics for what we are doing in Iraq. Bush and his people learned nothing from Vietnam. This doesn't surprise me with respect to Bush, who I consider to be a barely educable retard. But those around him should know better.

I'm not anti war but I know what you mean. By 'stop wars' I meant to say (as you said) doing the RIGHT thing. Exactly the same applies to Britain declairing war on Germany after invading Poland...........or the Falklands war..........

Greg S wrote:Very well said. I always used to think if I lived in America that I'd vote Republican but not anymore.

I think a lot of people look at foreign countries and favor the more conservative party because they worry about the stability of the country if the more liberal party gains control. It was that way in the '80s with a lot of Americans and Thatcher, including Americans who'd never have supported her if she had been running in the United States.