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USArmy, the CH46 was returning and was inside Kuwaiti territory. The eye witness account of a Lt Commander RN "It suddenly nose-dived towards the surface."

Once again, please do not presume to tell those of us who have actually done it, what flying into a Landing Site is all about. (DZ = Paras) To lead 6 aircraft full of troops into position to land and then attack is incredibly thrilling, and difficult, adaptability is the key to operating succesfully, and our team have been doing that for a long long time. The first heli-borne assault was by Royal Marines at Suez, so suck back, get some time in and think again.

El Prez, you nor anyone else on this forum have all the facts. If the mission was scrapped then it was scrapped for good reason. You know the individual pilots didn't make the call.

Anyway, you guys should have known better than to associate yourselves with Navy pukes. Next time call the 101st or the 160th SOAR, they'll set you up in style.

I'm obviously missing something here. Perhaps the Florida reservists are taught things that we are not.

I know the nearest USArmy has been to a firefight is in the video store when picking up 'Apocalypse', or on the sidewalk outside.

El Prez, not that I feel the need to explain myself to you, but I have been shot at and returned fire but I didn't need to join the army for that pleasure.

"I'm obviously missing something here." You are. I don't know all the facts and neither does any one else who wasn't in the JOC. So get over your self.

Derek said:

Now that we have returned to friendly forum discussion, which is where we should be,

That didn't last long!

Mark.

I tried to stay friendly, but someone has an axe to grind.

Any one for tennis??

The USA has a great deal of responsibilty being the sole power left in this world.

Ever heard of China? Richard Nixon had, they certainly kept him on his toes and increased his air miles. We know very little about their present capabilities, and I have no wish to see the sleeping dog woken.

El Prez wrote:

The USA has a great deal of responsibilty being the sole power left in this world.

Ever heard of China? Richard Nixon had, they certainly kept him on his toes and increased his air miles. We know very little about their present capabilities, and I have no wish to see the sleeping dog woken.

Who was it who said
"let china sleep, for when she wakes let the nations tremble"
napoleon?

If we (meaning the US) went to war with China assuming we had a Hawkish administration in the White House it would go like this. Intense bombing of agricultural area's, Naval blockaid to cut off supplies, millions starve, more bombings of military installations. Ground Forces move in, a horrible number of young men die on both sides. Outcome is uncertain.

Listen guys, I'm really not trying to have a perpetual pissing contest. All I'm looking for is a little mutual respect.

Who was it who said
"let china sleep,

Napoleon

Mark.

USARMY_ wrote:Listen guys, I'm really not trying to have a perpetual pissing contest. All I'm looking for is a little mutual respect.

US, Respect is earnt, not given lightly

If we (meaning the US) went to war with China assuming we had a Hawkish administration in the White House it would go like this. Intense bombing of agricultural area's, Naval blockaid to cut off supplies, millions starve, more bombings of military installations. Ground Forces move in, a horrible number of young men die on both sides. Outcome is uncertain

I find myself returning to this conversation with reluctance and a degree of morbid curiosity, it's not so much a pissing contest as pissing against the wall, totally wasted time. However I find the argument proposed above to be facile.

USArmy have a look at a map of China. China is immense, it's population exceeds yours by almost a factor of 10. It doesn't matter if you carry out a Naval blockade, it doesn't need to transfer food internally to any great degree, obviously to the cities, but the rest of China is almost self sufficient. Bomb agri areas? OK go and spread the soil around, to what end, the whole country grows food? Ground forces have moved into China over the millenia, none has been succesful and they have been advanced armies led by brilliant tacticians, Japan for instance. Leave it asleep or we will all suffer.

It has been said elsewhere that American education is second to none; education is one thing, applying intelligence another.

Must go and lie down now

El Prez wrote:

If we (meaning the US) went to war with China assuming we had a Hawkish administration in the White House it would go like this. Intense bombing of agricultural area's, Naval blockaid to cut off supplies, millions starve, more bombings of military installations. Ground Forces move in, a horrible number of young men die on both sides. Outcome is uncertain

I find myself returning to this conversation with reluctance and a degree of morbid curiosity, it's not so much a pissing contest as pissing against the wall, totally wasted time. However I find the argument proposed above to be facile.

USArmy have a look at a map of China. China is immense, it's population exceeds yours by almost a factor of 10. It doesn't matter if you carry out a Naval blockade, it doesn't need to transfer food internally to any great degree, obviously to the cities, but the rest of China is almost self sufficient. Bomb agri areas? OK go and spread the soil around, to what end, the whole country grows food? Ground forces have moved into China over the millenia, none has been succesful and they have been advanced armies led by brilliant tacticians, Japan for instance. Leave it asleep or we will all suffer.

It has been said elsewhere that American education is second to none; education is one thing, applying intelligence another.

Must go and lie down now

Might be wrong but did the British invade china fairly successfully and burn down the summer palace?. The motives were..not good but i thought that was how we ended up with hong kong for 99 years. As part of a forced treaty?

Typically the Chinese always adopted the same tactic, allow any invader to progress as far as they liked as quickly as they liked, then when supply lines and their food supply from the local area were exhausted attack in massive numbers. A palace can be rebuilt, not so a defeated army. The same principles were applied prior to Stalingrad by the Soviets.

A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.
Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Strategic Assessments

I have just emailed a former US Marine who was at the Chosin Reservoir. he posted on Leatherneck, remembering those Royal Marines of 41 Commando, the Chosin Frozen. I have asked him to write to me detailing his experiences, and his memories; I hope to post this for all to see the way that the USMC and the RM worked to save each other all those years ago. Wait out.

Give China one or two decades, then stand by.

Aye - Andy