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I don't think there's anything weird about me saying that I don't need anybody else telling me what's right and wrong. I like to think I'm smart enough to work that out for myself.

Don't you find it odd that the man that first wrote the Bible in English rather than in Latin was burned at the stake for hierarchy on the orders from the Pope. As the Pope has a direct line to God then it must have God that gave the orders.

hmmmm.... "thou shalt not kill" springs to mind. Then again, most christians throughout the years seem to only read the bits they like. The bit about turning the other cheek seems to have been ignored a lot.

I was baptized as a baby, but I dont go to church, and I dont really beleive in jesus or most of the storys from the bible. However I beleive their is a god, I wear a cross round my neck, I say a prayer every night, and if someone was to take the mick out of christianity I would be offended. Why I feel that way I dont know, I just see it as having a little faith that their might be someone up there looking over me, my family and friends, just makes me feel that little bit better about life in general.

Redhand wrote:Look lew, I stopped reading your post when you claim The Bible was written by some guys with personal opinions.

Redhand wrote:Your setting yourself up so easily there...I don't know why you can't see it. If your 'personal' set of rules is what you abide by, and yet they hold no allegiance to a higher authority, then creates quite the moral conudrum.

Example: If i chose my set of beliefs to be incest, rape, and pillage...u should have no problem with it...right?? Cause ultimately thats what I believe in...so if there is no higher authority...who's to say its wrong?? U??

I can think of an eleventh commandment; those shalt not be an arrogant arse.

I admit I don't know much about christianity, but then again i dont claim to be christian. And burning someone for translating a book is murder in my eyes, however you want to word it.

As previously stated, I'm an agnostic Atheist, although for the last Cencus I joined those who putdown Jedi, which is now an official religion.

I have always worried about my attitude to religion, if a duffer like me can see the holes in the arguments, why do some of the greatest brains worldwide adhere to the 'Book' and 'There is a God' routine.

Different strokes.....

PongoLogs wrote:

Redhand wrote:Look lew, I stopped reading your post when you claim The Bible was written by some guys with personal opinions.

Redhand wrote:Your setting yourself up so easily there...I don't know why you can't see it. If your 'personal' set of rules is what you abide by, and yet they hold no allegiance to a higher authority, then creates quite the moral conudrum.

Example: If i chose my set of beliefs to be incest, rape, and pillage...u should have no problem with it...right?? Cause ultimately thats what I believe in...so if there is no higher authority...who's to say its wrong?? U??

I can think of an eleventh commandment; those shalt not be an arrogant arse.

I really would like to continue this debate. And if insults are par for the course, i can join in on that too.

But i seem to remember the last time i slung an insult at someone my post was removed by one of the 'moderators' in all their glory.

I'm not here to change anyones mind, im just here to defend my faith.

So I'll start with this: Any Christian who knows the bare minimum of theology will acknowledge that its ludicrous to claim the earth is only 5-6K years old. Im referencing that to someone who said 'scientific evidence' proved the Bible wrong. But I should also note that your 'evidence' is based alot on carbon dating, which time and again has proved to be off...by ALOT in many cases.

And when people start throwing around that christians are hyprocrites and interpreters of the Bible according to them, that's also quite off. The General Catholic consensus maintained through the majority of the worlds Christian population on the teachings of the Bible is unanimous, with no qualms.

References to the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisiton are common place amongst critics. Although, if you had read anything besides the leftist revisionist history on The Crusades, you would get a MUCH different picture.

As far as the inquistion goes, i cannot apologize for that, it was evil what those men did. BUT, it should be noted that if you take Christian history as a whole, those men were such a small blip in a generally devout church, that they don't even represent anything slightly significant.

And yet Christians are constantly being accused of being 'hypocrites' and 'close-minded' and all this other BS. Yet when the atheistic beliefs of this world get their hands on any sort of power they go absolutely, terribly wrong...ie. Communism. Communism is responsible for roughly 1 Billion murders worldwide since it's inception...i can reference that too if you don't believe it.

Yet in the cosmopolitain circles of America and Europe, not an eye lid is batted. The Common excuse is "well Communism has just never been executed properly"...well F**k me!...ya think?? When the reds dominated over 1/3 of the planet at their height, you would of thought the message would be clear, it doesn't work.

Anyway, i know most of the critics on this thread aren't communists anyways. But it should be noted that Communism stood openly for most of what your saying...and as the saying goes "a rose by any other name is still a rose".

Se la vie.

C'est la Vie.

There should also be an acute accent over the e of C'est, but I can't be bothered.

A bored Moderator. Who did not make any changes to your posts.

So why are we all on planet Earth? To be born, to live, learn and die?

What is Space, what is the Universe, where does it end, why is there only human life (apparently) on planet Earth in our solar system?

So many questions, so little time to find out.

Redhand, You state that the Inquestion was only blip in history, well it is more like a large stain. Try telling any Catholic in Ireland that Cromwell was a mere blip in history, and see what they say, please let me know when you are going to do this as I would like to watch another little blip appear. Even in this part of Southern England they still burn the Popes effigy every year to remind every one of Bloody Marys Reign of terror, and that was only 500 years ago.

Redhand wrote: But i seem to remember the last time i slung an insult at someone my post was removed by one of the 'moderators' in all their glory.

Cute. But the mods are here to moderate and do so quite well in my opinion. I do think the title of the thread should have been changed, because it's needlessly inflammatory. Beyond that, where's the beef?

Redhand wrote: I'm not here to change anyones mind, im just here to defend my faith.

Well at some point, and it's not unusual for this type of topic, 'defense' veers into personal attacks, and though I don't think you're the only one to have indulged, two wrongs don't make a right.

Redhand wrote: But I should also note that your 'evidence' is based alot on carbon dating, which time and again has proved to be off...by ALOT in many cases.

Hmmm... But what about particle analysis using a particle accelerator?

Redhand wrote: As far as the inquistion goes, i cannot apologize for that, it was evil what those men did. BUT, it should be noted that if you take Christian history as a whole, those men were such a small blip in a generally devout church, that they don't even represent anything slightly significant.

Now this sounds a tad like Bush telling us that the goofy bastids at Abu Ghraib are an aberration. It had nothing to do with Pentagon and White House directives, oh no, just as the Inquisitors had no relation whatsoever with the Vatican.

Redhand wrote: Yet when the atheistic beliefs of this world get their hands on any sort of power they go absolutely, terribly wrong...ie. Communism. Communism is responsible for roughly 1 Billion murders worldwide since it's inception...i can reference that too if you don't believe it.

You really have a thing for (well, against) the left, don't you? But have you considered how utterly common and similar men in power really are, regardless of their 'stated' political affiliation?

Redhand wrote: Anyway, i know most of the critics on this thread aren't communists anyways. But it should be noted that Communism stood openly for most of what your saying...and as the saying goes "a rose by any other name is still a rose".

I'm curious now, and this is not a loaded question: but if those who disagree with you are 'critics' and displaying beliefs close to communism, though they aren't communists (in your words), what exactly are you on about?
One of your previous statements, to the effect that you will be church-going' until the end of your life seems rigid and uncompromising, does it not? I'm interested to know your thoughts on the rapture and eschatology.

Redhand,
I believe in the lord, but just because I do doesn't mean everyone else does. You cain't make a man believe, that ain't your job. The lord speaks to all of us and some folks just don't listen. If God ainn't getting through to them then what makes you think you can? Maybe it ain't their time to find or listen to the lord. I don't never go to church because the preacher approaches the "Is God Real" question kind of like you do. Science can't explain before the big bang much, see they call it a phenomenon, they call the way water got deposited, the tilt of the planet, our moon's placement and rotation is all a phenomenon, they call God and acts of God phenomenon. So God to me can be scientifically proven since there are things we can't explain.
I talk to God and I know he listens, he don't always give ole Whitey what he wants, definitely doesn't explain all my questions, but he sure lets me know he is around.
Let these people here alone, God will talk to them in due time, if they listen or not it is not any reflection on you.
Serve God and be cheerful, in the end God will deal with the New Age Dirt Worshipers. He probably has got some dealing to do with me too, but have he any mercy on this old piece of white trash I surely will be grateful.