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Ex-URNU-Student wrote:This is exactly what I mean. The school massacre, as bad as it was, hasnt moved us closer to being under bin Laden's rule, regardless of what Bush says. You, my friend, are letting emotion override logic.

In any case im sure the Chechens are also a bit upset about the 400000 of their people killed by the Russians.

1) It is what makes us human.

2) In no way does that justify killing children. It is a big fat fukcer of a line to cross.

USA, UK etc etc makes no difference what country they are from. They are there because they signed on the dotted line and were told to go. They do their jobs to the absolute best of their ability and ANYONE who says otherwise without being there themselves is IMO naive and heartless.

It makes no difference what nationality; we all bleed and we are all the same inside. If more people could remember that then things would be different.

RIP to all who have been lost.

Tom

Ex-URNU,

A lot of people are advocating the kill-em-all strategy but IT WONT WORK. The Israelis have been doing it for over thirty years and wheres it got them? Absolutely nowhere!

First of all, please note that I held very little sympathy for Israel until around three years ago.

Many would argue that Israel isn't trying to get anywhere, just stay in one place and exist as a nation like we have the luxury of doing. Of course things like the settlements are provocative, but it appears that a majority of Israelis are against them and the practice will likely stop.

AQ only exist because they have disillusioned muslim populations in which to hide. I honestly believe that if, for example, the Israel/Palestine conflict was amicably solved, once people in the Mid-East see peace and prosperity develop, noone would support the likes of OBL anymore, they would become irrelevant over time.

However, Israel's been attacked by conventional means three times since its inception. The aim of these campaigns was the elimination of Israel as a nation. Palestinian extremists do not want the peaceful co-existense we all hope for, they want the Israelis driven into the sea.

The first giant leap towards peace will be when the Arafats of the Middle East accept and recognise that Israel exists and always will. Israel will never be challenged for military supremacy and will always be recognised by the United States. However long this asymetric warfare lasts, Israel will still be there.

What started the latest round of violence? Ariel Sharon made a low-key visit to a holy site after being given permission from the official channels to do so. The local extremists then made a big issue out of it and the Western cameras rolled on, here we are four years later.

The leaders of Hamas etc have a vested interest in maintaining conflict, what on Earth would they do without their status? Middle Eastern nations have time and again shown to be brutal and corrupt, hatred for Israel turns the population's attention elsewhere so it goes on an on.

Right now in Israel, people like you and me, citizens of a democracy; go to work on a bus, unwind in a cafe after work, go to a beach, whatever, and finish the day without a head, maimed, blinded, deafened, orphaned. Let's cut Israel some slack.

For now I'm convinced that the targeting of the Palestinian extremists' leadership, however deep they shield themselves with well-meaning but foolish civilians, is Israel's only option.

df2

Greg S wrote:Lets rewind 20 years alright - Afghanistan and the Mudjahadeen. The CIA trained them (maybe delta and SAS too who knows) in guerilla warfare against the Russians. They win but then the warlords start fighting against each other (probably whats going to happen in Iraq).

I think,if the US were involved in that way, it would be US Green Berets who would do they training/working with locals. From what I've read, Delta is only Counter-Terrorism.

The USA think 'oooer sod that, lets get out of here' - Bin Laden blames what happened in Afghanistan and Palestein on the USA so he forms A.Q.

Bin Laden has been reported as saying his hatred of the US has a three pronged explanation. The first is the US support of Israel. The second is the US Airbase in Saudi Arabia. That really cheeses him off because he
thinks only Muslims should be allowed in Saudi Arabia. An example of this can be seen in the Western workers who were being murdered during the summer by AQ-related terrorists. The third is the spread of American/Western culture, which he saw as being Godless.

I'm sad to say all western countries are now in the same boat, the French were against the war yet that didn't stop terrorists in Iraq taking them hostage? They will use whatever force to acchieve their goals and NOBODY is safe from them - the sooner you realise this the better.

I agree with ya here. Putin may be ex-KGB and a rather spooky fellow, but he is right when he said there is no point in negotiating with child killers.

Ex-URNU-Student wrote:Anyone who supported this whole enterprise has no right to sit and whine about dead soldiers.

you little f@#k! who the f@#k are you to talk about soldiers?
watch your mouth boy before someone fills it in!
whether this war was/is justified or not, has f@#k all to do with the soldiers who are dying out there.
you are lucky we are seperated by a computer screen or i would fill you in right now
i served in the military under the queen you little prick, dont you dare disrespect the dead who allowed you the right to talk

tonyh762 wrote:

Ex-URNU-Student wrote:Anyone who supported this whole enterprise has no right to sit and whine about dead soldiers.

you little f@#k! who the f@#k are you to talk about soldiers?
watch your mouth boy before someone fills it in!
whether this war was/is justified or not, has f@#k all to do with the soldiers who are dying out there.
you are lucky we are seperated by a computer screen or i would fill you in right now
i served in the military under the queen you little prick, dont you dare disrespect the dead who allowed you the right to talk

Agreed, remember URNU they're not just soldiers. They're people........with families...........

Tab wrote:Ex-URNU-Student, thanks for letting us know that we lost the war in Malaya, I will see what can be done to alter the history books.

Come on that was a crappy little commie insurgency in a jungle, theres no comparison.

minimac wrote:

Ex-URNU-Student wrote:This is exactly what I mean. The school massacre, as bad as it was, hasnt moved us closer to being under bin Laden's rule, regardless of what Bush says. You, my friend, are letting emotion override logic.

In any case im sure the Chechens are also a bit upset about the 400000 of their people killed by the Russians.

1) It is what makes us human.

2) In no way does that justify killing children. It is a big fat fukcer of a line to cross.

USA, UK etc etc makes no difference what country they are from. They are there because they signed on the dotted line and were told to go. They do their jobs to the absolute best of their ability and ANYONE who says otherwise without being there themselves is IMO naive and heartless.

It makes no difference what nationality; we all bleed and we are all the same inside. If more people could remember that then things would be different.

RIP to all who have been lost.

Tom

I agree with you 100% cent. Iv never said anything otherwise as far as I can recall.

EX- URN- Student, That crappy little war in Malaya went on for about 15 years, and was a nasty little affair. Also I think any of the lads who where there would not think much of that reply, and if you where any where near them I could see you spitting out teeth for a while. It is so easy to run down some thing that you know little about.

Of course things like the settlements are provocative, but it appears that a majority of Israelis are against them and the practice will likely stop.

Thats BS and you know it, every Israeli PM continues to expand them.

The first giant leap towards peace will be when the Arafats of the Middle East accept and recognise that Israel exists and always will. Israel will never be challenged for military supremacy and will always be recognised by the United States. However long this asymetric warfare lasts, Israel will still be there.

The PLO amended their charter to recognise Israel about 10 years ago. Also an Iranian A-bomb might change things in the Mid-East dont you think? lol

Tab wrote:EX- URN- Student, That crappy little war in Malaya went on for about 15 years, and was a nasty little affair. Also I think any of the lads who where there would not think much of that reply, and if you where any where near them I could see you spitting out teeth for a while. It is so easy to run down some thing that you know little about.

All I meant was that its not a fair comparison. Im not denigrating the soldiers involved.

EX-UKNU,

Have u read 'The Jungle is Neutral'?

Ex-URNU-Student wrote:What are Al-Qaida? A tiny disparate group of fanatics who carry out the occasional atrocity. The idea that these bandits are on the verge of overthrowing Western civilisation is so ridiculous it makes me laugh out loud.

I disagree with that. I'm an American who objects to the Iraq War, but I do so because I think Bush used the very real terror threat to justify an unrelated imperial excursion.

IMO Iraq was a strategic blunder of the highest order which gave succour to Al-Qaida. If Iraq wasnt a base for terrorists under Saddam it sure as hell is now. Large parts of Iraq are under insurgent control and its perfectly clear the US cant do much about it. So whats been gained?

I strongly agree with that criticism. It summarizes why, apart from the horror that war visits upon a society and its people, the Iraq War is such a blunder for the United States.

So forgive me if im a bit bitter.

It goes over the line, in my opinion, to declare a lack of sympathy with the military personnel who have been killed, and with their families. As Tab put it so well, those people go where they are told to go. Civilians like myself see trouble and run away, and we can do that because we know that the military will see trouble and run toward it. I am intensely aware of this distinction. I hate it when Bush uses 9/11 to justify Iraq and I don't mean to do the same thing, but the sight of the police and firefighters running toward the WTC when everyone ran away is etched in my memory forever. Again, this in no way justifies the Iraq War. I mention it only as a commentary on the nature of protection and those who provide it.

No matter how I might feel about Bush's misbegotten Iraq adventure, I can't bring myself to come even close to voice the sentiments voiced by Ex-URNU-Student.

I am honestly struggling to find the words to post here on this thread.

Some of the comments have made me feel physically sick and have filled me with rage, this one for starters:

"Anyone who supported this whole enterprise has no right to sit and whine about dead soldiers."

I don't think that anyone who has not worn their countries uniform or laid their life on the line to protect others should really make such comments, especially one who as a student has yet to experience the rigours of the real world.

Take a moment, compose yourself and think about whom you're talking to and about what. I for one have lost oppo's to this most recent and other conflicts and I am not prepared to put up with comments like that.

Please refrain from callous remarks which make other forum users see the red mist drop.

Well you have to realise that some people nowadays regard joining the Forces the same as doing any other job especially my generation. You do what you do and get paid for it. "My country right or wrong" and all of that, noone buys it anymore, noone wants to fight for what they perceive as bogus wars. Certainly not the people I know anyway.

Ex-URNU-Student wrote:Well you have to realise that some people nowadays regard joining the Forces the same as doing any other job especially my generation. You do what you do and get paid for it. "My country right or wrong" and all of that, noone buys it anymore, noone wants to fight for what they perceive as bogus wars. Certainly not the people I know anyway.

My reading of history tells me that it's only a minority of people who join the military for patriotic motives. But one thing's always been true: If you join a military force, you don't get to pick and choose among your wars. Someone else does that for you. Then, now and forevermore.