MilitaryForums.co.uk

Whitey wrote:

Whitey what the fcuk has that got to do with the murders?

About as much as I have against a guy adressing me with a sentence with fukc in it with the tone and context you have.

Shut up and leave me alone, or cry to an activist group. I probably don't have anything to say that you would want to hear and as far as me wanting to listen to you? Frankly you have me confused with a man who gives a damn.

Enjoy having a conversation with yourself.
Ps.

"US troops look like homacidal maniacs" Arent they?

Homacidal, of course some are or atleast a great deal. Army's kill people, people they don't even know, my God watch the news, enlist in our forces.
Maniacs? To the man they are!

[/quote]

YOU MADE A POINT SO EXPLAIN YOURSELF. You seem to think that their sexuality could have been partly to blame -why?


Wholley Im not gay/bisexual but I treat them how i like to be treated, with respect.

BigBart.
At the risk of re-opening an old can of worms,
there are vital differences between the UK and US regarding guns.
The British never had the right to self defense(down Lew)Where as it is written into our Constitution(Second Amendment)Banning the use and carry of firearms has not reduced crime rates anywhere it's been tried.
Criminals don't obey the law,so if you remove firearms from law abiding citizens,you remove their right to defend themselves as only criminals will have guns.Australia,Canada and the UK have introduced restrictive gun laws recently and their violent and invasive crime rates have soared.
In the US more and more states allow concealed carry.Result!Less violent crime as the bad guys don't know who's armed.
Regarding safety and training before you can purchase/carry a weapon my Sheriff's Dept is strict as are most others.You have to prove you can handle a weapon safely and shoot with a high degree of accuracy before you get a permit.
The other thing to consider is response times.
I was a Henderson Co.NC Deputy Sheriff.Our response time to a 911 call could be up to 45 minutes,more than enough time for the perp to have killed you and your family and be long gone.
A lot of people see the US as big cities with lots of law enforcement.
It isn't so.Most of America is rural with undermanned police dept's.
Well thats my two cent's.
Wholley.

day tripper.
When you treat other members with respect you'll get mine.
You won't get it by dissing people with phrases like"What the fcuk"
Wholley.

I've never lived in the USA so I understand it's a different world, and i may be talking complete B.S.... I admit we do have gun crime, but over here, even most criminals struggle to get guns. So if gun laws were a bit tighter, maybe there would be less need to defend yourself? I don't know a lot about your laws, so forgive me if i sound ignorant. But all I know is, my father-in-law lives in michigan, owns a hangun, has only lived there 3 years and he has a bit of a history of mental illness. (He had a breakdown once, and was a bit violent with it) to me, that's a bit iffy.

wholley wrote:Maybe your just over influenced by your lefty professors.
One liner avoidance line.
A liar is a liar.
Wholley.

Firstly im not a student anymore (having just graduated). Secondly I did a business and economics degree, with no politics whatsoever so you can stop coming out with that tired old lefty-professor line, its not funny anymore.

Thirdly, it may shock you but im not a big Michael Moore fan. iv seen the film and yes half of it is a load of bollocks and lies but the way I see it is, if it turns gullible fools against Bush then im all for it!

Who cares if its all lies?

lol its so freakin obvious, the more the Republican Right whinge, the more publicity Moore gets, the more people will see his films, the more people will fall for his arguments!

So the solution is, stop dissing him in the first place! Even though he is an overweight limousine liberal.

Fox News take note!

I can't see where Day Tripper has actually insulted either of you.

By saying WTF, its in astonishment I presume, more than anything else.

So I tell you what, how about I ask the question because I definately haven't insulted either of you two.

So, whats being homosexual got to do with the murders??

bigbart.
Depends on where in Michigan he lives.
If he's in Detroit he cannot own a handgun.
If he has a documented history of mental illness the FBI should have caught it and denied his permit to buy.
You kind of make my point here,if a convicted felon/mentally unstable person can get ahold of a gun how are we supposed to defend ourselves against them.Wait for the Cavalry to arrive?Don't think so.
There are laws here that regulate when and where you can use deadly force.
For instance."You may not at anytime use deadly force if the threat is removed"Ie.The guy has seen that nice little red dot on his chest and has decided to bug out,so you can't shoot him in the back.
Gun laws here are more involved than most people realise.
We are not all John Wayne.
Wholley.

URNU-ex student.
First of all congratulations on your Graduation.
Now to business.The left still whine endlessly about Florida and how so many voters were"Disenfranchised"Moore still whines about it.
Fact is Gore lost Florida and the general election,even the Alphabet channels who did their own recounts over six months could'nt make him a winner.
Moore,in this country has now dropped out of sight,but I believe he's still very popular in France.
Wholley.

I wasn't going to respond to this b/s anymore, but since Wholley is here and is taking the blows over something I said and meant I'll give you all your menial satisfaction or disatisfaction. I was in my medical training when we hit pshchological disorders in the course in 1992. Homosexuals were mentioned in detail and the condition (Wasn't a lifestyle, was a condition) was thought to be a mental illness after years of study(100? more?)
Some psychiatrist recomended counseling, hormone replacement. Most homosexuals had been abused as children, raped, experienced regular violence and attacks, had a hormone deficiency. There was evidence that therapy didn't cure them 100% but was effective just like all psychiatry as long as the patient participated. Since homosexuality is linked to abuse and abused people are more likely to become abusers, viola! The last 10 years medical books, doctors ect... won't touch the topic. Older doctors behind closed doors will comment on this, but nothing public, if they did, even with exact proof, the gay lobby would do to them what any lobby does to anyone who speaks against their cause. Homosexuality is a control technique for gays, like control is involved in many other mental conditions. When something infringes on that or threatens their logic, and lifestyle they feel their control is threatened and attack, bipolar people are the same way in control matters.
Gay's have a high incidence of violence between eachother, in relationships, and against others. After all their idea's on love and relationships are often if not always scewed by past abuse that had been inflicted on them.
But have it your way, listen to the new age mystics, they besides long years of research know better. Often it is the homosexuals who profess to be the experts on their condition. Makes alot of sense, the maniacs incharge of the asylum, self medicating mentality, damn the facts for feelgoodism.
Here is a link to a very gentle version of some of what I'm saying. You'll be hard pressed to find things harsher than this on the net these days because of the movement to remove facts dealing with this issue.
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRR_01_12.html
As to that, you take it or leave it, I won't argue this any further since I tend to believe no matter what facts or rational points I make on the subject, you'll respond with some angry banter. Perhaps you should seek counseling for your anger.
On guns? Most people in America who get shot deserved it. The news only reports the shootings that back up the anti-gun lobby's claims. You don't even know how disappointed and how fast the news dropped the DC sniper case once it was discovered that black muslims did this. But look at Scott Peterson, I'd wager a hundred murders occur a day in this fashion, and look at the coverage on this one. But the worst shooting spree I can remember occurs and the trial gets little coverage. The war in Iraq and Scott Peterson make up for 60% of our news. Notice Cobe Bryant's rape is lightly reported and Micheal Jacksons case takes a major back seat to some white dork accused of killing his wife.
Look up some of the stories that are writen by women who blew away a rapist. My grandmother shot a man who broke into her house, she was 70 something at the time and alone and he had a knife. What was he going to do? Break in and carve them both up some roast beef, light candles and sing "As time goes by"?
Political Correctness is a spin device, and it is used here to twist truths, evidence and agenda's. You live in the UK, I don't know how it is there, and I don't comment much on the UK domestic stuf because of it. You have no clue as to what is going on in America I have a feeling. I live 30 miles from the Colunbine area, the stuff that didn't make the national news is amazing.
The two shooters had planted bombs, their parents knew they made them and thought nothing of it? They wrote often in school essays their plans, and it looks like a confused police department might have fired some fatal shots. The whole thing is more complicated than you know. Colorado has an issue with alot of things. It is growing at a rate firemen and polce, medical staff can't keep up. Plus the criminals are everywhere and seem to be into the drug rings and bold. A policeman shot and killed a man here 2 days ago at a gas station who tried to get the drop on him.
Gun control isn't the answer, America is so huge and full of them at this point, all you can do is try to raise your children right. If you do that they won't turn violent and most likely won't turn gay.

Wholley in case you didnt read my question properly I quote "Whitey what the fcuk has that got to do with the murders". How did I diss him exactly?

Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself Whitey, however I strongly disagree with your reasons.

I don't think there is a silver bullet to explain what happened at Columbine.
But I'm surprised no one brought up the issue of anti-depressant drugs prescribed to children and teenagers in increasing numbers.
Harris was taking Luvox for instance.
Some numbers about children taking those drugs:

age group 0-5 years old
1996 - 8.000 1997 - 40.000

age group 6-12 years old:
1996 - 185.000 1997 - 224.000

age group 13-17 years old:
1996 - 473.000 1997 - 528.000

Total 1996: 669.000
total 1997: 792.000

Frank you got a point with the drugs as well. Around here it is questioned I think more reasonably since it occurred here. The whole thing was a recepie for disaster. The place they lived is right on the outskirts of Denver and the population exploded there beyond expectation in the late 90's. Million dollar homes easy is where these kids came from. Their parents seemed to not be involved at all with their kids, they didn't even eat at night together or see eachother on the weekends but in passing? WTF way to raise boys. The kids were given chunks of money. My dad never handed me a few hundred and told me to get lost, he wasn't crazy. The guns they bought were stolen, illegal ect... so what law could have prevented that? They made bombs for months and the parents never went into the basement and said, Cleo, Harri what is with all the pipes, fuses and gunpowder? I don't get it, I don't get why this is never brought up, just more gun restrictions on millions because of 2 pissed off mentally deranged ignored dorks went crazy.
In the old west people were shot daily and no one was screaming ban it all.
In California my wife's friend from college's mother was stabbed with a samurai sword, you probably heard about it. We have a major issue with sicko's in our society, the medication stat's you post reflect it. The media feeds it imo.
But Columnbine is a real screwed up case, the whole school surveillence video wasn't released to even the victims for 4 years, and it was edited.

But I will say, my grand mother lived a few more years because she shot a man who was going to kill her most likely. I think if you break into a home and the owners is there, you deserve whatever you get.
Now in the malls you see guys in black trench coats trying to imitate the Columnbine shooter look here.
People in America started getting crazy when the law forbade the dishing out of a good ass beating by peers.
We have a kid who lives by me who is always acting crazy, destroying property and busting car windows. I live by the AFA in a very nice part of town, no sense in it. The kid came up to my 2 year old and jerked his toy from his hand the otherday and I jerked it back and told him next time I was going to go to his house and beat his fathers ass. So the father comes out a day later and I told him, next time his kid funks with my property to include my boy I'll hold him responsible and exact justice on his ass. So either be a parent and supervise your punk 13 year old or I'll beat your ass. He told his son yeasterday to stay away from my place because I was crazy. Kid walks around the other way to avoid my place now.
Little bastard was shooting rockets into dry grass a month ago and the police came, I didn't call them and the kid ran into the house and pretended to not be home. So the police staked it out for an hour and left.
If say a neighbor complained about my behavior as a kid, my dad wouldn't have even asked for my side of the story, he'd beat my ass and made me work off the damages for the neighbor. I know it, I've done it.
I cut Mr. Sailors lawn a whole summer pro bono because a friend of mine tossed a ball from my back yark through his window.
But their is a siver bullet actually Frank, it is called neglect and everyone around those two are responsible.

Whitey,
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Some laws over here are f*cked up. I agree that if an intruder is in your home and they get shot, it's their problem. They shouldn't have been there. A farmer here in the UK named Tony Martin was sent to jail for shooting a burglar with a shotgun in his home. There was a public outcry and eventually he was released. The laws here are wrong in a lot of ways. All you have to do is throw a punch at an intruder, and he can have you for assault. Our system has flaws, but in my opinion, so does yours. If the majority of citizens own guns, there must be a lot of cases where what might have been a punch-up will turn into somebody getting shot. Even the most respectable citizen loses it sometimes. I'm not trying to say you're wrong and I'm right, as like you said, I don't know what goes on over there as much as you do.
Wholley, my father-in-law last time I heard he lived in Lansing, but he did work in Detroit for a security/investigations company. He did have a UK gun licence. (which he obtained before his breakdown) Maybe they thought he was respectable because he'd served 22 years in the British Army. (yeah, right. A respectable infantryman?)
Anyway, I'm not trying to turn this into a big argument. You have your opinions, and I have mine. Both the UK and USA laws have flaws, is what I think. And if you read my earlier post, I did say that guns can't be blamed for Columbine.

Whitey wrote: I think if you break into a home and the owners is there, you deserve whatever you get.

You leave your rights at the door.

My Dad and I were discussing this and he told me about a club he heard of whilst visiting a mate in Anchorage. Its called the $20000 Club and its $5 membership a year and first one to shoot a burgular takes 20 grand!

He also says that you ARE allowed to shoot somebody if they are on your property and his mate who lives in Alaska said that people shoot the intruder on the balcony/veranda and drag them inside, does this happen?

Thanks.

Tom