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Jason, not sure there'll be three different versions. There are three tranches, the first will (at the moment) have only air to air capabilities with limited ground attack but they will be upgraded later, the second and third tranches will have all the gizmos and will be a true multirole aircraft. There's some debate as to wether the first tranche will be delayed to allow it to be fitted with all the ground attack stuff aswell while on the prodiction line but personally I don't see the point.

chunky from york wrote:The RAF does seem to get a large piece of the pie and P**ss it against the wall.

How much was spent on Nimrod and associated radars over the years before, giving up and buying American????????

First post from me so fingers crossed and here I go....

The RAF wanted the US manufactured E-3 Sentry all along but it was the government of the day who decided that we needed a British built aircraft and 'the Mighty Hunter' was selected. The fact that it never worked as advertised is hardly the fault of the RAF.

Rob B

Rob b The fact that it never worked as advertised is hardly the fault of the RAF

Thats not strictly true, with all defence contracts there is input from the service involved as to what is proccured. The only problems with Challenger 2 are the items specified by the end user.

The problem is, at best the end user Reps are enthusiastic amateurs in post for 2 years so problems get missed or specs changed at a whim.

Dave.Mil wrote: Thats not strictly true, with all defence contracts there is input from the service involved as to what is proccured. The only problems with Challenger 2 are the items specified by the end user.

The problem is, at best the end user Reps are enthusiastic amateurs in post for 2 years so problems get missed or specs changed at a whim.

Yes, there is input from the service - the spec has to come from somewhere so why not the end user

I disagree with your description of rank amateurs though, be they service, government department or contractor. I'm sure we all have heard about this committee and that committee being involved in defence procurement, and I very much doubt specs are changed 'at a whim'.

Rob B

From experience I can tell you some of the changes made to Challenger 2 were by one officer who "did'nt like" a particular function. So it depends how high up the chain as to what power you wield.

I suppose there lies the difference in our opinions. RAF vs Army. Let's face it procurement for the RAF can't go to the toilet without umpteen committee meetings blah, blah, blah !

I'll tell you a true story (pull up Mk1 sandbag btw ). I was stationed at RAF Wyton when we still flew Canberras from there and we had an aircraft that was basically grounded for want of this one particular spare part. So I call up the civvie Supply Manager (recently moved to Wyton from Harrogate) to get his help. The dozy sod turned round and said that the RAF didn't have Canberras any more and so they hadn't bought in any more spares. After a bit of yes they do, no they don't, I politely invited the chap to look out of the window and tell what type of noisy aeroplane he thought he was looking at. That's right spotters it was a big dirty Canberra.

I kid you not.

Rob B