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Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Tue 11 May, 2010 8:05 pm
by Fusilier
History is written by the Victors.
But you have to think that our past is our past. Yes we were barbaric but we have moved forward. The Taliban however are still fighting in the old way.
True, but that’s like a ex smoker who now what’s to lecture and condemn other smokers because he has given up.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Wed 12 May, 2010 6:57 am
by MSI64
Not really.
Telling another country they need to be a little more civilized is not the same principle at all.
We need to evolve, we have and they have to.
By your statement we cannot stop
people traffickers because we used to do it??
Or Pirates in Somalia, we did that too
How about those countries who dont let there women vote, did that
Oh and we killed people of other religions??
And burned witches!
Its about moving forward not living in the past.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Thu 13 May, 2010 2:31 pm
by Fusilier
No that’s not what I am saying.
People change at different times in history and for different reasons. We or this country including America should just remember that.
The yanks of all people should not be trying to educate people after their performance in Vietnam.
Just like a smoker. They stop and then spend the rest of their time lecturing others, forgetting this was them only a short time ago. Most people see the reasonableness in that. And in the example of a smoke would remind them of the recent facts and to consider that.
This country and America spend plenty of their time reminding the Japanese and Germany the horrors they performed in WW2. Why can others not remind us of our resent history.
Yes it is about moving forward. Who decides the speed for them people………..you………..Britain…..
…….America. Bit rich I recon. Yes we evolve but its organic and slow and by its nature can not be opposed or speeded up by others thought force.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Thu 13 May, 2010 3:35 pm
by HCR
I have to hand the Taliban one thing THEY HAVE BALLS. And there nobodys fools.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Thu 13 May, 2010 3:46 pm
by Fusilier
HCR wrote:I have to hand the Taliban one thing THEY HAVE BALLS. And there nobodys fools.
Yep.........ask the Russians.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Fri 14 May, 2010 7:01 am
by MSI64
I think we need to define what you consider RECENT history??
Now are we talking about the Taliban?? this being a group that wishes to revert a country back to the Stone age. We have to look at the Taliban and the country of Afghanistan as two seperate entities. The BNP are the UK version of the Taliban, granted water down but its the same principle.
Its a political/cultural party that should never be given the chance to govern.
The insurgents we are fighting, are they fighting for the freedom of Afghanistan, as they did under the Russians? Or are they fighting to remove us so they can implement Sharia law on a country that doesnt want it ? This is what some people cant see!
The Russians were trying to subjugate a country, this never works. The US/UK are trying to bring security to Afghanistan. And yes a secure Afghanistan does bring its financial rewards, thought I would put that in before someone starts screaming Oil Oil Oil!!
We have asked the afghan people if they want Taliban rule and they said No, so its only right we are there to prevent that.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Fri 14 May, 2010 10:10 pm
by Fusilier
Recent history………….eerrr couple of hundred years. Hardly a long time in the history of this country. The time we still believed it was ok to have black slaves and not give woman their vote.
The BNP are a legitimate party. Who until recently had a few seats. Voted for in a democracy. This is from a man married to a black woman.
It’s a funny old world. One minute you are a freedom fighter. The next a terrorist. They believed in Sharia law when we backed them against the Russians. Check why Russian went to war. They were supporting the government of that time. Sound familiar.
You said OIL. When do you think we will get round to helping the thousands starving in Zimbabwe. Britain has much more in common with them people.
Who made us the Police man of the world. Any chance we will pick on China next. Or could it be they are a little too big to handle.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Mon 17 May, 2010 6:40 am
by MSI64
Fusilier wrote:Recent history………….eerrr couple of hundred years. Hardly a long time in the history of this country. The time we still believed it was ok to have black slaves and not give woman their vote.
Bothof the things mentioned have been changed as we realized it was wrong, so doesnt that give us the right to tell others that its wrong?? Or are you advocating a "Well you did it in the past, so we can now policy?"
The BNP are a legitimate party. Who until recently had a few seats. Voted for in a democracy. This is from a man married to a black woman.
The BNP are a party who has a different agenda to what they show the public. That policy is both repressive and a back step rather than progresive. Thats how I see the similairty in the two examples I gave.
It’s a funny old world. One minute you are a freedom fighter. The next a terrorist. They believed in Sharia law when we backed them against the Russians. Check why Russian went to war. They were supporting the government of that time. Sound familiar.
Again a lesson learnt from history?
You said OIL. When do you think we will get round to helping the thousands starving in Zimbabwe. Britain has much more in common with them people. Examples please?
And how many terrorist camps do we find in Zimbabwe??? Its different sticks for different dogs,
You cant use the same policy for every country!!!
Who made us the Police man of the world. Any chance we will pick on China next. Or could it be they are a little too big to handle.
So do we just leave it to go to hell then??? And when these parts of the world fall into instability do we just shrug and say "Well at least we didnt get involved???"
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Mon 17 May, 2010 7:32 pm
by Fusilier
Bothof the things mentioned have been changed as we realized it was wrong, so doesnt that give us the right to tell others that its wrong?? Or are you advocating a "Well you did it in the past, so we can now policy?"
No its a policy of don’t be too quick to judge and make yourself sound like a hypocrite. I explained that people change in their time not in the UKs. Just like we did. Who are will.
Is
telling all we do.
Again a lesson learnt from history?
Really. How about the lesson that the Afgans have kicked everyone out in the end.
Its different sticks for different dogs,
Its called doing nothing, if it suits us.
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The BNP are a party who has a different agenda to what they show the public. That policy is both repressive and a back step rather than progresive. Thats how I see the similairty in the two examples I gave.
Some people disagreed. That’s how a democracy works.
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So do we just leave it to go to hell then??? And when these parts of the world fall into instability do we just shrug and say "Well at least we didnt get involved???"
That’s what they said about Vietnam. We now know their motives where not sooooo pure. Its now been proved the invasion of Iraq was a big fat lie. Some even say illegal.
Examples please?
You want a history lesson on Zimbabwe or Rhodesia mate??
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So do we just leave it to go to hell then??? And when these parts of the world fall into instability do we just shrug and say "Well at least we didnt get involved???"
We let countries go to hell it if suits us like I said.
The Americans and UK have backed and done nothing while Israel has oppressed their neighbours. See how long it is before we DONT get involved.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Mon 17 May, 2010 8:28 pm
by MSI64
Do we pick and choose our fights???? Oh course we do.
Again we are not fighting the Afghan people. Iraq may have been illegal in some peoples eyes, however I for one feel it was a course we had to take. Now that was a lesson learnt from History.
Israel is a war of two sides both as bad as each other.
Zimbabwe chose its own path when they asked for Independence. Military intervention is not whats needed just yet. And besides its contained within its own borders for now, am sure when they start breeding terrorists then we might take another look at it.
Foreign policy is about making the right choices at the right time. not just about moving troops into every country thats at war. Besides which we are not the only country to supply peacekeeping troops, and most African peacekeeping is done by other African nations.
What is it you want???? either we intervene in other countries or we stay out of all?
Am sure the people of Bosnia or Rwanda would have been happy if we sat back and did nothing.
As I said before its about different sticks for different dogs, not every situation is resolved by putting boots on the ground.
You cant use the same arguement for every situation.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Mon 17 May, 2010 10:27 pm
by Fusilier
Iraq may have been illegal in some peoples eyes
The facts were lies if that’s what you mean ask David Kelly!!!!..........and the Security Council.
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Israel is a war of two sides both as bad as each other.
Its a war of one country with fast jets and tanks with the backing of America taking another’s land.
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Military intervention is not whats needed just yet.
Yep, I'm sure the staving agree. This helping people is very random isn’t it.
And besides its contained within its own borders for now
Too right. If their going to die. Best keep it organised and in its borders..
however I for one feel it was a course we had to take
Really. Did you say it when he was gassing he’s own people.
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Besides which we are not the only country to supply peacekeeping troops,
How little are most contributing and why is that.
What is it you want???? either we intervene in other countries or we stay out of all?
I’m showing you the inconsistencies. If you think it is all about just helping the oppressed then good on ya.
I respect everyone who serves but I wont be encouraging my son or daughter.
You cant use the same arguement for every situation.
Then don't.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Mon 17 May, 2010 10:37 pm
by Fusilier
To be honest we are not going to agree.
The question was do we respect the Taliban?
I do and the facts prove they are as good a guerrilla as any before them. Against superior forces in nearly all areas other than local knowledge.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Mon 17 May, 2010 10:39 pm
by Fusilier
Fusilier wrote:To be honest we are not going to agree.
The question was do we respect the Taliban?
I do and the facts prove they are as good a guerrilla as any before them. Against superior forces in nearly all areas other than local knowledge.
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Tue 18 May, 2010 6:19 am
by MSI64
Mate the only thing we agree on is that we will never agree
Re: Do we give the Taliban the respect they deserve.
Posted: Tue 18 May, 2010 8:06 am
by Fusilier
I respect that.
I just hope you understand that my lack of respect for the politics of this country is opposite to the respect I have for the men & woman implementing the policies.