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Jamie354 ( or whatever number it was!!)
The answer to your question is 1959!! (January) That makes me one of the "Old and Bold".
It does not make me the font of all knowledge - but it does give me an experience of life.

Dangermouse.
Just in case you misinterpreted my initial statement. Patriotism certainly came into it. And it should do for all people wanting to join the Armed Forces. Otherwise I would want to question your reason for joining.

Cameraderie - and wanting to look after your mates - certainly comes afterwards but the initial reaction should be wanting to serve your country.
That is after making the decision to escape from your background!!

Sneaky

I am not trying to prove you wrong or against you in anyway here Sneaky Beaky, I look up to people with expirance and knowledge but I don't think my reason is very patriotic either. I couldn't honestly say I would be happy to fight for my queen, I will put my life at great risk for a good friend if needs be but I don't even know the queen. For my country? Sure some of it, but I know alot of people who I would never want to fight for even though I will.

Sneaky, I wouldn't describe myself as a patriot, but a humanist who's morals extend to people accross political borders. I believe that the nation is nothing but a political construct. I don't believe that that political outlook should block my attempts to go into the armed forces.

But, I would be more than happy to swear an oath of allegience to this country and it's leaders. Why? Becuase I believe that the UK plays a vital role in international security, while the Marines themselves play a vital role for British security.

I do not look down in any way at people who describe themselves as patriots. And the fact I do not describe myself as a patriot just means that I do do not share a state-centric view of the world - it does not been that I in anyway devalue the rights and privalages that this nation has given me, and the proud traiditons and history this nation possesses.

Moreover, I doubt that anyone would qualify as true patriots today. Our armed forces act when the government sends them on operations yes, but the truth is most soldiers woudl not act when thier morals conflict with thier 'duty.' I hardly expect a troop of Royal Marines, for example, to open fire on a street full of civilians even if it has been declared to be in the nation's interests. True patriots, I believe, only exist in national political parties, who are a bunch of scum. Patriotism is NOT the last refuge of a scoundral, but a belief that is based upon faulty logic.

I don't want to turn this into a political debate. However, i'm sure that most peopel would consider themselves to be patriots because Britain is a democratic country that offers it's citizens a good shot at life. Thats true, and I certainly belief in this. But my loyalty in not to a country, but people I meet in my life, democracy, freedom and liberty.

To put it in other words, saying that being unpatriotic means that I do not give loyalty to the values that the UK represents is equivalent to saying that because i'm not a Christian, I must therefore be an amoral murderous and adultering devil worshipper.

Dangermouse,

I would have to disagree with your last posts. Some of your morals are very worthy - but to join any branch of the county's armed forces requires a degree of patriotism!!

To put it in other words, saying that being unpatriotic means that I do not give loyalty to the values that the UK represents is equivalent to saying that because i'm not a Christian, I must therefore be an amoral murderous and adultering devil worshipper.

Sorry, but I don't understand that quote. Just because you aren't a Christian does not make you a bad person!

Moreover, I doubt that anyone would qualify as true patriots today. Our armed forces act when the government sends them on operations yes, but the truth is most soldiers woudl not act when thier morals conflict with thier 'duty.' I hardly expect a troop of Royal Marines, for example, to open fire on a street full of civilians even if it has been declared to be in the nation's interests. True patriots, I believe, only exist in national political parties, who are a bunch of scum. Patriotism is NOT the last refuge of a scoundral, but a belief that is based upon faulty logic.

The last lot is a load of crap!!

Sneaky

I didn't explain as best I could, but yer what I sadi was mostly bollocks.

But I still disagree it's necessary to be patriotic. I would be happy to fight for this country, but not for the benefit of this country er se. There is a limit. 'For my country' whatever the circumstances is just something I don't agree with. But i'm not going to f@#k off and fight for someone else.

sneaky beaky wrote:Sorry, but I don't understand that quote. Just because you aren't a Christian does not make you a bad person!

That's my point! Because I wouldn't consider myself a patriot (though other's may believe I am patriotic) it doesn't mean I feel less about the political system of people in britain, or the important role of the armed forces.

I remember seeing the Royal Marines on BBC news recently, rescuing one of their guys, when they attached themselves to the side of an Apache helicopter. That was something I had never seen or heard about before.

When you see an act like that it's hard not to consider being part of a unit like the marines, or any military unit for that matter. It seems to me that there is an operational tempo in the military that far exceeds anything
in civilian life, and I suppose that's why many join.

Like a lot of people I was always quite curious and attracted to the armed forces and being a country boy at heart used to the outdoors life. I had also done judo for a long time so I thought the discipline side would be OK and to be honest it was.

I didn't really join up to serve queen and country, that was just part of the deal I guess. At the time the Army was not really for me but I am so glad that I had the experience, it stays with whatever you do in the future the person planning and discipline will come in useful whatever you do

I have to say i'm joining up because i really want to do stuff that not alot of people get to do, jumping out of helicopters, night time cliff assaults, 9mm pistol on the range, how often do you get those chances as a civvie, not that i dont love my country, but im in it for the experiences

Im joining because i want to shoot a gun
Just joking

On my way to my RMAD day in Bristol on the train, there was a guy oppisite me who serously just wanted to play with 'guns' and do some camping. I couldn't stop laughing at him.

I was dumb enough to believe someone who told me that all the girls love a guy in uniform....

SiD wrote:I was dumb enough to believe someone who told me that all the girls love a guy in uniform....

Hahahahaha! http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messa ... d=0&from=1