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Let's set aside civilian casualties on either side.
What's been gained?
We had a whole array of connected but separate groups and agents in the region.
Instead of trying to keep these challenges separate and exploiting their differences, Israel managed to reinforce or even create more bonds between them.
The secular Syria, the theocratic Iran, the various nationalist/ethnic/Islamist groups now see the virtues of collaboration with crystal clear clarity.

It was never a question of whether Israel had a right to respond.

How they went about it was unwise to say the least. Criminal? Yes, perhaps. Their argument seems to be that the only way to deal a front like Hezbollah is to destroy it, but where in hell is that front?

For those interested, an aside:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/milreview/sepp.pdf

Couple of points in that passage of text there Frank:

A strategic victory does not validate all the victor’s operational
and tactical methods or make them universally applicable,

and

“learning more from one’s mistakes than one’s
achievements” is a valid axiom.

So basically saying that one size doesn't always fit all when its comes to waging war/counterinsurgency.
There was never really anything to be gained in Lebanon.
I just wish someone would've told Israel.

Tam, there was such a debate in the US before going into Iraq. Maybe not so much publicly to begin with, but at the Pentagon, State and the White House.

Voices of caution and experience got early retirement is all.

Thanks for reading this up, by the way. Youse get a cookie.

Forgive me for intruding on an intellectual political discussion, not really my scene.

Iraqi terrorists attack America. America's solution: invade Iraq.

Lebanese (or whatever, within the Lebon border) terrorists attack Israel. Israel's solution: more or less invade Lebanon. How much longer before they actually do?

I know it's a very crude comparison, just playing devil's advocate.

druadan wrote:Iraqi terrorists attack America. America's solution: invade Iraq.

Check yer facts.

druadan wrote: Forgive me for intruding on an intellectual political discussion, not really my scene.

I wonder why...
Once more: check your facts.

#1 Iraq has never attacked America.
#2. Isreal attacking Lebanon the way they did was stupid. If nothing else it confirmed my argument that the Izzy Army is more bark than bite.
#3. Looking at the similaraties between the strategy used in Iraq and Lebanon, either the USA is indeed an Izzy puppet or visa versa.
#4. Isreal may have killed a bunch of people, but they lost.
#5. Looks like the Arabs aren't the disorganized pushovers they used to be.
Iran assisted in nearly sinking one of their ships. Israel has been globally shamed again and holocaust ™ sympathy doesn't get them the free pass it used to.

Frank S. wrote:

druadan wrote:Iraqi terrorists attack America. America's solution: invade Iraq.

Check yer facts.

druadan wrote: Forgive me for intruding on an intellectual political discussion, not really my scene.

I wonder why...
Once more: check your facts.

Point taken. I'll sod off then

Yes I do realise that Iraq as a nation was not responsible by the way, just to try and save a little grace Just commenting on how the US and Israel seem to share similar ideas regarding the use of force.

That is because the Israelis own America, well according to Benjamin and Sharon
Notice the similar tactics used in Iraq and Lebanon.

Afgahnistan, that is a traditional American conflict, but the other one smells kosher to me.

Whitey wrote: Notice the similar tactics used in Iraq and Lebanon.

And there was me thinking I was talking to meself

I'm well out of my depth, think I shall restrict myself to listening on these sort of topics for now

Would be nice to talk about this subject outside the box. Maybe if more people here sobered up and stopped harping on about their service experiences as if they were victims of horrible trauma we could get smart and form our own alliances and share information.

The facts are ugly but worth looking into. And it's myself, not meself. First thing you have to do is change your speech, get precise and authoratative.
That cute cuddly Tommy soldier lingo is nice on Benny Hill, but isn't very effective when discussing serious matters.
Keep Ten Yards!
Whiteman

Hey Don, I just sobered up mate and thought I`d give you a hoy you big bear

Tommy soldier lingo is nice on Benny Hill,

You are a card you are
I love you man, I still fly the flag in the back screen of my Ute

Thibodaux, Fontaineaux, the place is buzzin'
Kinfolk come to see Yvonne by the dozen
Dress in style and go hog wild, me oh my oh
Son of a gun, we'll have big fun on the bayou.

Jambalaya and a crawfish pie and fillet gumbo
'Cause tonight I'm gonna see my ma cher amio
Pick guitar, fill fruit jar and be gay-o
Son of a gun, we'll have big fun on the bayou.

You bet your sweet ass there Musky, fill fruit jar and be gay-o
Is that what y`all get`s up to on the weekend there White boy? Being gay-o?
I know I do
Dare not ask what " go hog wild" involves as I`ve never seen Deliverance there boy, honest
Well not much

Recent events in Israel give me some hope.
Some, not much.
Don`t be a stranger Don, I miss your C$$n$ss input there boy

Pour vous, cher

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop- ... 09-9120769
Karen Carpenter sucks dead donkeys,
Or at least, she would do if she wasn`t anorexic

hank said it like this

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop- ... 09-9120769

Have big fun on Dubai-oh

Is that where you blokes are going next Farkinnel


Mais vraimant mon cher camerade juste pour vous, ici le patron est I`ll?
Kin dead right he is
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/music/clipse ... 47-3288434

Sweaty memories Don, from a day time sesh in a smoke filled working man`s bar in Tampa, ma `titte Fille. Oh Yes
Come back White boy, you haven`t paid your mess bill.

Keerist H.
You need to git a job.
Answering six month old posts.
Bored then.....Are we?

Dead right mate
I was just missing the old c33nass`s input there muscrat
Not everyone "gets" that particlar young man.
But I do mate He`s a good`un
Jambalaya a crawfish pie and fillet gumbo
Works for me everytime

On a very slightly more serious note.
I have tried to call Don over the last few.
#sis,But didn't recognise the female accent on the machine.
Certainly not his trouble and strife.
And before you start dear boy I DID get the#right