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sneaky beaky wrote:
"If the Arab world laid down their arms, then the war would cease to exist.
If the Israelis laid down their arms, then Israel would cease to exist"

I kind of like that, too, but just for the sake of argument:
if the Arab world laid down their arms, what guarantee would they have of their continued existence?
Or perhaps more accurately, how much better would disarming make their existence?

I think Harry's point about proportionality really resonates with other arguments I've made elsewhere about the continuum of force.

Merci, mon ami, resonates hey

Well girls, those useless bastards in the UN look like sorting a cease fire after how many weeks of girly hand-wringing sesh`s? Every single day that those fat cnuts prevaricated before going out to dinner on their UN expense accounts meant innocent lives on both sides were wasted. They should be ashamed of their performance here.

Hezbollah and the Lebs have said they wellcome a ceasefire and will abide by it`s terms.
Jew fink the Israelis will

There has been a lot of opposition from inside Israel, to the manner in which this action was handled. Benjamin Netanyanu and others have asked for an enquirey. Surprisingly, they are going to have one.

Meanwhile, me old run ashore oppo and stacks rate Tery Waite has this to say.
Have a think

www.ycare.org.uk

Please support Y Care International's Middle East Crisis Emergency Appeal - letter from Terry Waite CBEAs
you can imagine, the people of Lebanon, a place close to my heart, are very much in my thoughts and prayers at the moment. I’m sure they are in yours too.As I write, over a thousand people have lost their lives in Lebanon and Israel in the current crisis. In Lebanon alone, one million men, women and children – a quarter of the population – have been forced to flee their homes. Many have been left with nothing. They urgently need food, water, shelter and medical supplies – as the television reports so vividly show.
Perhaps, like me, you have seen people digging for relatives trapped under rubble, mothers trying to carry their young children to safety and whole families weeping, having lost everything they own. The situation is desperate. We must do something to help. Of course, we must all hope for a ceasefire that lasts. But the fact is, people need help now. And through Y Care International and the YMCA movement, we have the perfect means of offering exactly the type of assistance that is needed at this time. As you may have seen on the news reports, aid agencies are operating in very difficult circumstances.
The YMCA has the advantage of being a local organisation, with connections throughout the community. It is known and trusted by all sides. In 2004 I visited Lebanon for the first time since my release from captivity. Much had changed, but the importance of the YMCA to so many communities hadn’t. My friends at the YMCA in Lebanon are distributing food, water and medicines, through a network of over 450 clinics and dispensaries.
We desperately need your support to reach out to all those who are now destitute. £100 could buy much-needed medical supplies – bandages, painkillers, and antiseptic to tend the wounded. £50 will buy food and clean water for a family for a week. Even a few pounds will be well-used, helping to buy blankets and other emergency supplies. Whatever it is used for, your gift will save and change lives where it is needed most at this time of crisis in the Middle East.
So, please donate online at www.ycare.org.uk, or over the phone by calling 0800 013 1055. Unfortunately, for the people of Lebanon and the wider region, there is no time to lose.
Yours sincerely,

Terry Waite

Just an observation on the ITN News at 1800 they spent 13mins of a 30 minute proggramme telling everyone who bothered to listern just how bad the Israelis were. They even had a 7years old approx child giving an obviously prepared , for want of a better word rant on the horrid Israelis and how the Lebbonese had Won the battle so far. I take it that the Lebbonese have done nothing during this conflict Where was the 7 year old israeli child to give his prepared speech Bloody Biased or What

News today says that Israeli officials went to Washington to get US approval for the attacks on Lebanon, and long before those two guys got lifted.

Israeli officials visited Washington to secure US support for its plans before Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers on 12 July, the ostensible cause of the Israeli bombardment of Lebanon.

Israel's plan for an air war to turn the Lebanese people against Hezbollah was "the mirror image of what the United States has been planning for Iran,"

And so the plot thickens

Tezza, jew fink the Israelis were morally right to behave as they have since they started this? They were in the right?
Are you really saying that?
You`ve been sucked in mate, if that`s the case.

I could be wrong, but I think his point is in fact that if the attack was planned weeks prior the Hezbollah attack and abduction of two IDF pers., it negates the notion that Israel was acting in self-defense.

In fact, it's alleged that this op was a sort of rehearsal for an attack on Iran.

I was merely pointing out the fact that ITN were so obviously biased it stank i have mailed them the same statement as seen here and am waiting a reply Whether i think anyone is right or wrong is not the issue here any war is wrong as we know but the arabs will continue to seven bells each other no matter what we or others think The Israelis never started this they were defending and if you really look at it as a whole is it not really Iran V USA here

Terryat,

Sorry, but I disagree with your viewpoint, Israel did start the whole Middle East palava since 1967 by ILLEGALLY OCCUPPYING Palestinian land (I am not including 1948 as its no point as Israel is not going to give up its landed rights).

Why is it that Arab Israelis living in Northeren Israel do not have access to bomb shelters like their jewish neighbours ? Isn't that discrimination and I thought Israel is a democracy. Poor Israel !!

Frank S. wrote:I could be wrong, but I think his point is in fact that if the attack was planned weeks prior the Hezbollah attack and abduction of two IDF pers., it negates the notion that Israel was acting in self-defense.

In fact, it's alleged that this op was a sort of rehearsal for an attack on Iran.

Whoops never mind. I thought you was addressing Tam.
I'll get me coat and dunce hat.

:lilangel:

Why is Bush backing Israel? Or is this another cunning move by him to try an occupy another land that has been weakened?

Well this is a bit interesting....

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/750789.html

Bank Leumi orders internal inquiry over leak of Halutz affair

By Haaretz Service

Greatly embarrassed by the affair, Bank Leumi executives ordered on Tuesday an internal inquiry to determine whether its employees leaked information, which has brought many to call for the Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff's resignation.

Senior sources in the IDF General Staff and field officers who took part in the war in Lebanon said on Tuesday that Chief of Staff Dan Halutz, who went to his bank branch and sold an NIS 120,000 investment portfolio only three hours after two soldiers were abducted by Hezbollah on the northern border, cannot escape resignation.

The sources say there is a clear ethical flaw in the chief of staff's behavior during the hours when soldiers were killed in Lebanon and others were attempting to rescue wounded. Halutz should resign the moment the military completes its pullout from south Lebanon, they said.
At this stage, it does not appear that Halutz intends to resign of his own accord.

Several hours after the July 12 abduction, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert declared war on Hezbollah and Israeli warplanes began bombing targets deep inside Lebanon.

But as the country's political and military echelons met urgently to discuss the possible declaration of war, Halutz went at 12:00 P.M. to sell an investment portfolio, the Ma'ariv newspaper reported on Tuesday.

In response to the report, Halutz confirmed to Ma'ariv that he sold the portfolio on that date and at that time, but denied it had anything to do with the possibility of an imminent war. The IDF chief said he sold the portfolio because of recent losses he took prior to July 12.

"It was my portfolio of shares, on which I had lost NIS 25,000," Halutz told Maariv. "It is true that I sold the portfolio on July 12, 2006, but it is impossible to link that to the war. At the time I did not expect or think that there would be a war."

Halutz described the Ma'ariv article exposing the affair as "malicious and tendentious - I don't intend to be dragged down to such a low level and blemish my integrity. I am a citizen too and have my own economic affairs. This has stained [my reputation] for no reason and is unworthy of any further comment."

MKs call for resignation
No government figures have yet related to the affair but lawmakers from across the political spectrum have called for Halutz's resignation.

National Union-National Religious Party MK Zevulun Orlev called on Attorney General Menachem Mazuz to open an investigation into the affair.

MK Collette Avital of Labor, Likud MK Gilad Erdan and MK Aryeh Eldad of the National Union led calls for Halutz to resign in the wake of the disclosures.

The IDF Spokesperson said that Halutz has a bank account like any other Israeli citizen and needs to perform transactions in the account from time to time. Any attempt to link between personal matters of the chief of staff and Israel's national security is inappropriate, the army said.

No laws broken
The Israel Securities Authority commented that Halutz's act had not broken the Companies Law in respect to insider information. Section H.1 rules that insider information relates only to traded companies, not estimations in respect to the general situation of the market.

However, that in itself does not end the affair. If it turns out that Halutz sold shares in marketing companies or banks, assuming they would be facing hard times during the war, then his actions may be subject to investigation.

''Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

quote from Ariel Sharon to Simon Peres as reported on Kol Y Israel radio october 3, 2001

Are well, it's over with now, no more war!!

Well for now anyhow!