Game Over

[AmericanAirborne]

Its been a long a tough fight but we came out on the losing side. I am talking about those of us of are John Kerry supporters. In the end Bush precvailed and will be in control of the most powerful country in the world for another four years. If there is one man I believe is unfit to manage our fair nation it is Mr.George W. Bush. While at lunch today I was talking with some of my peers. Most are planning to join the military. Then one said that if he has to fight for Gerorge Bush he would rather not fight at all. I see this as entirely wrong. I am not going to enlist for George W. Bush but rather to defend my country. I just wanted some opinions. Would you ever not fight for a man in power that seems entirely unfit to do the job? I may not like Bush but he is not bad enough not for me to change my mind about enlisting. The only case I can see my self doing this is if the man is some suicidal wacko bent on world domination or something of the nature. Sound off!

[dootybooty]

Bite the bullet and get on with it. You live in a democracy and the majority of your countrymen voted for Bush. If you dont like it move to somewhere else, like Mexico or Grenada. Its not about who is in charge, it is about wether you love your country or not.
Look at us poor Brits, most of us on here hate Blair and what he is doing, but at the end of the day he was voted into power in an open election. We are stuck with the slimey scrote for now.
Now, if you are saying that you are living under an elected dictator I wont disagree, because we are.
The only way forward is to break away from the two party system. Elect
independant patriots to the Senate and Congress who do not have a party axe to grind.
It is starting to happen here, UKIP, BNP, Greens, etc.
Get off your arse and do something. Stop wingeing.
If you don't love your country don't join up.

[Guest]

The only way forward is to break away from the two party system. Elect
independant patriots to the Senate and Congress who do not have a party axe to grind.
It is starting to happen here, UKIP, BNP, Greens, etc.

I agree. Introduce Proportional Representation; let the minority party's have their say in Parliament. However, i think we have to think about the downside...it could create a coalition government which could be argued to be a bad thing, because if you look at Patliament nowdays; its hardly consensus politics (at each others throats all the time). The two party system does great strong government, but as you say, we get people like B'lier into office.

James

[W.Mitty]

This has really given me a laugh and it shows how full of shite the American public is.
For the last year all you Americans have said you wanted BUsh out and that he was an arsehole etc...and how you agreed with him at first but he was/is a liar about Iraq etc..
Now when you get the chance to get rid of him, you vote him back in.
I bet though if every American was asked on TV who they voted for they would say Kerry, what a joke.
So now hopefully the American public will stop moaning about their President and accept a bit of responibilty for what he does.
By the way this is not a personel attack on you American Airborne.

[Sully]

I served in HM Forces over here and whilst it is safe to say that I would not have refused to go on Op Telic and let my oppos down (despite being disgusted by the whole business) I certainly would have left the RM by now. I joined up for a number of reasons which had nothing to do with a love of the "country" or even a support of the monarchy who I believe are leeches.

That said, I loved books about the WW2 commando's and their amazing achievements in defending what, at the end of the day is my home, simple as that. Bush and Blair's war has nothing to do with defending their respective countries and in fact has made the world a more dangerous place at the cost of 100,000 civillian lives (if you believe the Lancet and the British Medical Association).

I would play no part in it.

[Tab]

James, A few years back Proportional Representation was the battle cry of the Liberal Party, when this cry was at It's height a member of the liberal party was foolish enough to knock on my door to discuss this idea. During the disccussion I pointed that what if the The National Front held the balance power and to support the government they wanted to run the Home Office and the MOD. He smiled and replied that all such parties as that would be banned and not allowed to stand for Parliament, when asked if he would still look upon this Country as a democracy, he called a fu#king anarchist and stormed off. It would appear that may of these political parties would say and do any thing for power and bend the rules to suit them self's

[Jon]

The problem is that Americans will always defend thier ways by defining thier actions as democratic. But in my opinion democracy is simply a word and is not something which instantly betters one nation over another autocratic nation. Politicians in democratic and autocratic nations alike are only interested in personal gain and will do anything to gain power. The problem with democracy is that the people vote who will lead, even though that choice could be misguided and wrong, as in the US.

Bush may have recieved a record vote, but the fact remians that he was voted for by people who refuse to believe that the world is now a more dangerous place and that the Iraq war was simply a diversion from the real threat.

100,000 Iraqis are dead, as are over a thousand American troops, 73 British troops and dozens of other coalition troops and dozens of foreign civilians. No weapons of mass destruction existed, therefore Saddam was no threat, never mind an immediate threat. No link existed between Saddam and OBL. Al Qaida, which was once denied access to Iraq, is now free to flourish there. Terrorist atrocities take place almost daily throughout the globe. The price of oil is up. Bin Laden enjoys more support in the Arab world than Bush can ever hope for. The US is no safer. It has more enemies now therefore it is more at risk. It may have been 3 years since the US was attacked on its home soil (thats if you exclude the anthrax attacks) but the US was not attacked on its home soil for another 8 years after the 1993 WTC bombing.

Lets just hope that Blair is kicked out of office here.

[dootybooty]

We seem to be getting into a whole new boardgame here. As I see it a soldiers duty is to obey legal orders. The morality of a conflict is not the concern of a proffesional soldier, if he did not know he was going to risk his life when he joined up or do things he did not like doing he was prety green. Of course he is entitled to have opinons, but these do not detract from the fact that first and foremost he is a soldier and has a duty to fullfill.
Before anyone uses Nazi Germany as an example of legal orders and the soldier please check your facts. A look at the case of SS private Wagner at Auschwitz can answer your questions.

[Wholley]

By the way this is not a personel attack on you American Airborne.

So who is it a personal attack on then Mitty.
Me? Who voted for Bush or just any American who dosen't agree with YOUR liberal press or the crap thats spewing from the US liberals that's caught by the BBC and fed to you as gospel(Oh,shouldn't say that word,makes me sound like a right wing neo-nazi bible thumping Elmer Fudd from the deep south)Well wake up and smell the coffee and/or tea.
Bush won fair and square.
End Tx.
Wholley.

[Mrs. Frank S.]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Wholley...mostly.

I voted for Kerry along with a lot of other people. Wholley voted for Bush. Bush won, fair and square. Yes, there are people whining about it. A bunch from the losing party always whine, no matter what election it is. It's rather normal.

I do take offense at Mr. Mitty's insinuation that it's my fault, or the fault of those like me. Sorry bud, we did our duty and voted. I didn't vote Bush back in office. The majority did. That's what a democratic election is all about.

Oh, and just to keep things straight. I'm not a "liberal". I am, and always have been, a conservative. I just voted for the other guy this time.

[Greg S]

Hmm, take a look at what ARRSE members think of the glorious leader (80% think hes a total cnut).
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/index.php?n ... ic&t=10006

[Gazza85]

Just found this, bit to ig to post it as a picture for all those on 56k
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UQASA2sZ ... 1618345417