BRAVO TWO ZERO - The True Story

[Sisyphus]

I was reading the fly cover on this book in WH Smiths yesterday. Usual comments: Stirring stuff/The true story needs no embellishment, etc....

Andy McNab's comment: "Infuriating".

Did I laarf!!

I wonder why he said that?

[Whah tush sweed]

If only all survived to sell their story.

I know one who'd be on one big piss-up.

Good luck to all, since we see and hear what happens to those who are injured or killed in the line of duty.

Keep pushing them out as I'll keep lining your pockets

[Artist]

his real name is.........john smith

I had more time for Vince Phillips,

Coff of Mc'lier!

Lend us a £1.000.000!

aye steve evans

[Sea Soldier]

Interestingly enough,I have just finished this book (from local Library) ...
Michael Asher actually seems to go to great pains to examine the claims made by "McNab" & "Ryan" & to then dismantle them,one by one ... in many cases by visiting sites mentioned in their books & speaking to local Iraqis,who were there at the time ... he also cites discrepancies in their "stories" from the versions given by them in the Official debrief,on their return to UK,along with factual evidence,presented to the Australian Courts in the contested case of a book,written by another Member of Bravo Two Zero .. which again differs widely from the versions given by the "Fantasy Brothers".

Quite a revealing book,I thought,whilst accepting that as a former 23 SAS Member himself .. he has an obvious vested interest.
Worth a "look" at least.

[voodoo sprout]

I just saw a "documentary" on channel 5 tonight on B20, made with the aid of some average TV reconstructions and a lot of input from McNab and Ryan - To be honest thoguh I didn't pay attention to the details as it was doomed to be a load of tosh anyway so I kept myself happy spotting holes in the reconstructions and acounts .

[veloman]

Any "factual" book that contains passages like..."so I said to Tug Wilson "go to your left Tug and do'nt forget to take the radio".Conversations like this remembered from the heat of a battle 5 years later, are a sure indication that the author is given to a certain amount of romancing.From my own experience the only thing you remember is a vague shape of the incident.These type of books have a place in the market,but not in my military library.

PS. the passage above is not from any book in particular.

Aye Veloman

[Dan UK]

so...what really did happen? (ive read both books and enjoyed them both.they both seemed to have the same story line so i cant see what else could have happened)

[Sea Soldier]

Dan,

Whilst all the books ... Bravo Two Zero ("McNab") .. The One That Got Away ("Ryan") ... Storm Command (Gen Peter DeLabilliere .. DSF @ the time)
& In the Eye Of The Storm (Peter Ratcliffe ..RSM 22 SAS @ the time) all deal to a greater or lesser extent with the Patrol named "Bravo Two Zero".

It is the various versions of "events",their locations,timings & actions of participants which give rise to suspect that the versions given in the "bestsellers" are not necessarily the true versions .. as given by the same survivors in their post Op briefings back in UK.

There can be no doubt that mistakes were made .. but by whom is the big question ? ... the book by Michael Asher attemps to debunk some of the myths,which have tended to become "fact" due to the writings of "McNab" & "Ryan" ... note the use of "..." signifiying their pseudonyms,whereas DeLabilliere, Ratcliffe & Asher write under their own names.

Both "McNab" & "Ryan" tend to blame Sgt Phillips for the Patrol originally being compromised,which in turn led to the deaths of several other Patrol members ... Ratcliffe & Asher dispute this,based on what was officially said subsequently by the survivors ... before they wrote their respective "bestsellers".

It is a retrospective attempt to aportion blame where it belongs,which is not necessarily where the two "bestselling authors" have laid it.

Get the new book ... it certainly makes you ask your own questions about the two you have already read.

[Dan UK]

youve certainly left me wondering...why dont they just ask stan and dinger what 'really' happened?

oh well i dont think ill ever figure it out...looks like ill be buying the book then.

[voodoo sprout]

youve certainly left me wondering...why dont they just ask stan and dinger what 'really' happened?

Perhaps because unlike their illustrious counterparts, they don't see the point in chasing the media shouting "look at me! Aren't I speshul?" Other than mildly putting to rest a portion of public curiosity, them giving their accounts would achieve quite little - indeed the opposite could be true if their acounts put the regiment in a bad light. And this does of course raise the possibility that the whole affair has to some extent ben orchestrated by the MoD, they could even have suggested McNab and Ryan embelish their stories a bit to make the SAS look even better, if you want to be really cynical you could say it was all a ploy to try and convince the government to give them a larger budget. However I'm not a great fan of conspiracty theories, so I can't be bothered to go on .

All in all though, I think a lot of it now is down to public relations for the various parties.

[Sisyphus]

Having seen some of the TV prog I felt the accounts related by McNab and Ryan contained all sorts of dubious statements. However, one thing did interest me: why was Ryan prepared to be shown full-face on screen and McNab was shown in silhouette. I understand he's now a full-time 'author' so there seems on reason he should hide behind a mask. Unless, of course, he's embarrassed by being exposed by Asher?

[Sea Soldier]

Sisyphus raises precisely the same point as Peter Ratcliffe ... He,De Labilliere,Asher ,"McNab" & "Ryan" are all now EX SAS ... the others have no operational "security" reason to further conceal their true identities,so why do "Mcnab" & "Ryan" continue to persist in so doing ?

The other thing Asher brings to light is that the driver of the Iraqi taxi "hijacked" by the Patrol was able to give him (Asher) "McNabs" real name,overheard whilst they were in his vehicle ... now that name has never been revealed to the public at large ... but was obviously already known to Asher.

Asher goes on to suggest that there was in fact "manipulation" of the "Official report" into the affair ... this is also supported by Ratcliffe & to a lesser extent by De Labilliere ... one of the reasons claimed by Ratcliffe for the writing of his own book.

Makes you think though,dunnit' ?

[Guest]

The programme during the week that i recorded only problem was i had put in a dodgy tape so was unable to follow it properly but the story they told was some what different to the film version that i believe Mcnab was involved with . With regard to Mcnab and hiding his identity when the Gulf 2 was on he was an advisor to one of the programmes they blurred his face on that but the camera kept showing him when it was side shot to him i think its just a gimick thing with him now unless hes scared of a paddy shot

[joe]

"Bravo Two Zero" and "The One That Got Away" were both released in the early Nineties, before the IRA ceasefire - I assume that "Ryan" and "McNab" decided to conceal their identities at that time due to their own personal security considerations, rather than any operational ones.

I think the whole affair needs a line drawn underneath it, washing ones dirty linen in public is never a good idea. It's a shame there is a still an appetite from the public for this kind of information, but I guess if it persists there will always be people like "McNab" and "Ryan" who are prepared to profit from it .

Joe

[Sea Soldier]

In one respect Joe is right ... the original publication dates were dangerous times for such authors .. but ... other authors,who were at precisely the same risk,from precisely the same sources felt able to go ahead without benefit of anonymity, .. why ? ... I suppose it's a matter of personal choice.

Secondly "McNab" & "Ryan" spawned a whole genre of books about SF exploits,matters about which the average member of the public knows little,in turn this spawned a generation of people writing about all things SF,from every conceivable "angle",things which were probably best left alone ... once the "box" was opened however,the public wanted more ... especially "exposes" ... just think how many folk buy the "News of the Screws" for that very reason & for how long that's been going on.

"McNab" & "Ryan" are now well established "fiction" authors (they had a good apprenticeship) .. they're hardly likely to kill the "golden goose" now,are they ?

I believe one reason for this latest book & is in fact quoted as such by Michael Asher,is his desire to see the stigma removed from the memory of Sgt Phillips & to attempt to put the minds of the Phillips family at ease ... whatever the rights & wrongs of that Patrol,life can't have been easy for them ... as we're all too aware,with the present Gulf War & its effect on families.If Asher achieves nothing more than that,then I feel his efforts worthwhile.