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Best Service Rifle in the World

Firearm and Weapon Discussions - Anything capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant.

Best Service Rifle in the World

AUG
6
14%
SCAR
8
18%
FN 2000
1
2%
C8
10
23%
TYPE 95
0
No votes
G36
11
25%
AN94 (AK47)
8
18%
SIG 550 family
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 44

Wholley
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Post by Wholley »

The mounting of the SUIT scope on a light aluminam dust cover was a large failing with the SLR.Getting the thing to stay in zero was almost impossible. 8)
timex
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Post by timex »

Then you stuck the IWS on top................that was fun in the pipe range, almost as funny as putting it on an L42.
Rogue Chef
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Post by Rogue Chef »

Artist,
Why would you need to waste money on a SUIT sight if you are capable of a two inch group at 500m with an open/iron sight?
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Post by Artist »

RC

HA EFFING HA! :evil:

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BritinAfrica
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Lee Enfield

Post by BritinAfrica »

A lot of interesting posts regarding favourite battle rifles.

I am a total and complete fan of the Lee Enfield including Number1's and Number 4's. The major problem with Lee Enfields is to try and get them accurate, by accurate I mean 1 MOA. The most common problems I have come across are excessive head-spacing, variations in bore diameter and the two piece stock. I've slugged a lot of barrels over the years, and have found variations from .308 right up to .318 , and changing the tension on the screw in front of the magazine can also change POI.

I picked up a Number1 Mk3* built at Enfield Lock in 1918, the rifle had been totally overhauled, new barrel, head spaced correctly, re-blacked and horrible varnished woodwork, but looked original, sort of. I fitted a 3-9x40 scope and took the rifle to the range to test its accuracy, windage was fine but it strung its shots up to 8 inches in height. Not good. I took the rifle to the workshop and removed the wood and began to check, it looked like the barrel was rubbing on the forearm (top and bottom). I got to work with sandpaper and totally relieved the wood around the barrel. When I test fired the rifle I was getting just over an inch at 100 meters. Good enough for all practicable purposes.

Although I tend to agree with comments about going up against modern assault rifles with a bolt action rifle, if there was a fella with an old Lee Enfield trying to kill me, I wouldn't want to get within a 1000 yards of him.

In my opinion, the Lee Enfield was the finest bolt action battle rifle ever built, fast smooth action, ten round magazine and if need be you could club someone to death with it. The Number 4 had a stronger action but the Number 1 looked better and was better finished in the main. The rifle I hated with a passion was the Number 5 Mk1.

I have a couple of Number 1” a Number 4 Mk ½ and a Number 4 Mk2. My son has a 1918 BSA built Number 1 Mk3 with the magazine cut off in immaculate condition. They are all good shooters and very accurate after a little bit of tuning.

My assault rifle is a 5.56 South African built semi auto copy of the Galil called the Vektor LM4. A very good reliable rifle, but accuracy is not that good, about 3 ½ groups at 100 meters. If the crap hit the fan here, for longer ranges I'd use my good old Lee Enfield, for close up my LM4 and really close up work, my 45 Colt ACP Government.
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Whitey
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Post by Whitey »

I own a lot of guns and I like my AK-47 the best for reliability, it eats any brand of ammo and needs little cleaning. Plus I like the bayonet.

If I was in an urban war I'd select my M-4 I guess.
Bolt actions, I do like the Enfield, the Mauser is decent and I really like the punch of the Mosin Nagant.

Shotguns are possibly the best weapons ever devised though. I'm about to start experimenting with different loads. Mossberg all the way.

Pistols? Glock, no question. Glock 22 40 cal. S&W

But the Ak is a fine weapon, modeled after the German Sturmgwehr 44. People say it isn't accurate, I say bullshit. You just have to battle sight zero it and then sight it in. Plus you have to keep your rifle fundamentals up.
Magazine exchange isn't the best, but what a bang for your buck. Good enough to cut blue helmets down in the street with.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
BritinAfrica
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Post by BritinAfrica »

Whitey wrote:I own a lot of guns and I like my AK-47 the best for reliability, it eats any brand of ammo and needs little cleaning. Plus I like the bayonet..
Without a doubt the AK47 is one of the most reliable rifles on the planet, drop it in sand, in water, in mud, drag it out and it fires.

The South African R4 and R5 as well as the civi versions the LM4 and LM5 are based on the AK47, AK47 working parts will actually fit and work with out any messing about.

I did some consulting work with the South African Police Ballistics Unit a few years ago where they did their utmost to destroy an AK47 picked up from a criminal. They ran over it with a pick up truck, it fired, they buried it, dug it up and it fired. They only managed to destroy it by blocking the barrel and then fired the rifle tied to a post.

Handguns? I am a fan of the Colt 45 ACP, the Browning Hi-Power and one of the finest ever built, the CZ75/85. I have a Colt and a Browning, the Colt feeds just about anything, the Browning can be fussy, my son has a CZ75 that will digest anyhting you care to put in the magazine.
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Post by anglo-saxon »

Yep, the first time I saw the "2 inches at 1500" I was, uh, dubious. Two inches at 500? I'd say that would be an excellent one-off. If it was done constently with multiple groups over a period of time, it would be a world beater for sure. Not saying it wasn't done. Just saying it is exceptional.

I have just obtained a Remington 700 XCR long range tactical rifle. It is chambered for .308 Winchester (7.62 X 51mm NATO). I've mounted a Falcon Menace counter sniper series 4-14 X 40mm scope on Leupold tactical rings and a Picatinny tactical rail base.

The barrel is a 26 inch, completely free-floating, heavy countour, fluted design with a target crown.

The action is fully glass bedded, courtessy of Dennis Sorensen - a damned fine gunsmith hereabouts. He was going to do a trigger job, too, but found the trigger to be already exceptional, so advised leaving it as is (a sign of a good craftsman when he turns work away for good reason). He just set it to 2.5 pounds, so a light touch and off she goes.

He mounted and bore-sighted the scope for me as well as he has the propper gun vice and torque wrenches. I am always afraid of crushing the scope tube when using Allen keys. The first five round group at the range was in heavy swirling fog, fired at 100m. Fired off a bench, the gun was fitted with a 6-9 inch adjustable Harris bipod (to be replaced by a Parker Hale in the near future - they still make bipods, just not rifles any more). The group size was slightly less than an inch and the MPI was an inch and a half above and to the right of the CZP (which, for the purpose of this exercise, I had set at 2 inches above the POA as I wanted the zero to be 200m due to the nature of the terrain I'd be hunting in - for open country, it would go out to 300m).

For ammo, by the way, I was using Remington .308 brass, CCI large rifle primers, Sierra game King 150 grain spitzer bullets and 44 grains of Hodgdon H4895 powder. I use digital scales, micrometers and RCBS powder measures and bullet presses. I'm a little anal when it comes to making ammo, so my tolerences for error are VERY narrow, consistency being key. My aim is to make ammo worthy of international match quality and I think I'm almost there.

It started to rain slightly, which cleared the fog considerably and my next group (after adjustment) was bang on vetically and just needed another half inch of adjustmnt to the left. Size-wise, though, it was a single ragged hole (three round group), as was the next and the naxt. Overall, I was very happy indeed with the new rifle.

Now, given that that "single ragged hole" is about a quarter inch group at 100m, that would imply a one and a quarter inch group at 500m. As much as I like to beleiev that is possible, I regret that the realist within must face the truth. Atmospherics, wind, temperature differences would all conspire aginst me and I am quite sure the group would be very much larger. All this, of course, with a big @ss scope and off a bench/bipod with a very decent rifle. Computers have done a real number on my eyes (as has age) and I cannot claim to be the shot I once was.

As for iron sights, I once had a very good shoot on Hythe ranges once back in the mid-80's. We were firing from 600m at fig 11s. At 600m the fig 11 is one half the size of the SLR foresight blade. Nevertheless, we were on average putting down 3 out of 5 targets with which I was not too displeased. Reasonable harrassing fire by any standards I reconned. These days, I would be hard pressed to see the damned targets at all at that range. Ho hum!
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Post by Rogue Chef »

A figure 11 is approximately 1/2 a metre wide by 1 metre tall. So 3 out of 5 at 600m with an open/iron sight is very good shooting.

Service rifle coaches aim to get your average squaddie achieving at least a 150mm (6 inches) group at 100m. This allows for the exponential increase in size to 450mm (18 inches) of the group at 300m. Thereby achieving the minimum standard for a battle shot.
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Post by macvsog »

BritinAfrica,

that reminds mne of what MACVSOG did. They put "doctored" rounds of AK ammunition all around Laos and Cambodia. These rounds either used C4 as powder or PETN as powder, can't remember which one. But they did destroy AK's too.
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Post by BritinAfrica »

macvsog wrote:BritinAfrica,

that reminds mne of what MACVSOG did. They put "doctored" rounds of AK ammunition all around Laos and Cambodia. These rounds either used C4 as powder or PETN as powder, can't remember which one. But they did destroy AK's too.
lol I bet that pissed off a few people lol
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Post by macvsog »

Why yes it did my friend! They also doctored ammo up to and including some light artillary. Many 82mm tubes where found via over head camera (read: aerial reconnassense) whereby the tubes blue outward. Also found some RR found blown in place. In an unusual movement which escapes members of SOG and historians like myself, why this operation was cancelled soon after it had just started. Anybody know why?
Rogue Chef
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Post by Rogue Chef »

I asked a couple lads I work with (RM and Para Reg snipers) if they thought a 2 inch group with five rounds at five hundred metres with an open/iron sight was a realistic achievement. They replied that it was entirely possible for an accomplished sniper and directed me to the following website:

www.dreamonyadaftnob.co.uk
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Post by AJtothemax »

AJ

"First with your head and then with your heart. Don't stop."
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Post by confused_bolton_boy »

Bollox, they're all kiddy toys. When I was a lad I had a pump action, double barrel, twin-tank super soaker! Probably the finest weapon of it's type in the world. The enemy would be drenched!

Lethal at 20-25 feet, you certainly didn't wan't to be on the receiving end of it, especially if I filled it with mud or piss. Came in a range of colours too like pink, green, blue, yellow, red... even had an adjustable carry strap!

Weight: 1.5kg (4kg loaded)
Ammo: H2O (urine or mud for Spec. Ops.)
Magazine: 800ml twink-tank.
Rpm: Continuous
Range: 20-25 ft.
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